94 xp water in cylinder (leak)

[crashcourse101]

So im back sorry just trying to learn all I can.

I have a 94 xp with the 657x motor #1 cylinder keeps fouling #2 is washed out .

runs fine out of water but when its in just blah nothing..

I took the head off and inspected where this could be coming from . The
o-ring on the top of the jug in cyl#2 was worn slightly/scraped .

Is this the culprit? or is there more to it?

 

[timmyboy76]

As long as oil, not blow'n by seals and foul'n plugs, i'd rebuild topend, if any, new gaskit kit, and hone jugs out and install new rings.

 

[crashcourse101]

Well the guy I got these from are only supposed to have 1 summer on the motors I have purchased 4 in the last week 3 657x 's and one 93 657 the two I was more concerned with one of them had the oiler sticking. I opted out of that and premixed it , runs like a dream the other I have been robbing parts off of .

 

[crashcourse101]

tried to replace the o-ring still no change still slight bit of water it seems on the plug.

checked compression #1 has146 #2 has 150 on the dot wtf

please ideas?

 

[timmyboy76]

If i'm not misteken, which give me alittle bit, but theres more to the "x" motors than just oval intake ports. Not misteken, don't think there interchangable with non "x", thats if you've changed them, because of being parts motor, then finding this leak?

 

[crashcourse101]

well this one I have not tampered with by swapping parts from another its all og

 

[crashcourse101]

sounds funny though huh it has me boggled if the o ring at the top is leaking it would do this right ...but it would or wouldnt still have good compression

 

[timmyboy76]

I ask when would be good time checking compression....got back either cold or warm. I thought it matter, since cold, everythings tight, and warm, you know...so..hey, with head off, lay it flat on table, maybe warped slightly?
Maybe some tool you can rent, for leak down in cylinder, might be pinhole that wont show up in compression test?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Exhaust manifold....

Sounds like you may have a leak in one of your exhaust manifold gaskets.

You say #1 is fouling and #2 is washed out. What do you mean washed out? With fuel? Usually, the term washed out was used from fuel, washing down the cylinder from flooding. Is this what your talking about?

If your talking about washed out from water, then your exhaust manifold gasket for that cylinder is leaking by at the water jacket.

 

[timmyboy76]

Nice.. Louis....A+

 

[crashcourse101]

Thank you so much again ,Yes, washed out from water I didnt think to check it there I didnt think it was that crucial since exhaust should be flowing out and nothing should be coming in .

I did hear these are real picky about any leaks.

Will that be in the top end gasket kit or seperate?

I will get on that tomorrow I need new studs for the exhaust anyway .

I will let you know ..

 

[crashcourse101]

the 3rd ski

can I bug you with another question about one of my other skis?

it has not been started in 2 years or so
It was said to have one summer also on the motor just needed solenoid.
I swapped it put new plugs, new battery, new gas,and tried to start . It turns over fast for 5 seconds and stops then real slow. I havent fooled with it enough to put some oil and gas in the cylinder to give it a boost .

Is the starter dying or the rings sealing up from no oil?

Yeah I went cheap bought 4 skis and none actually ran lol
sorry:ack:

 

[crashcourse101]

Sounds like you may have a leak in one of your exhaust manifold gaskets.

You say #1 is fouling and #2 is washed out. What do you mean washed out? With fuel? Usually, the term washed out was used from fuel, washing down the cylinder from flooding. Is this what your talking about?

If your talking about washed out from water, then your exhaust manifold gasket for that cylinder is leaking by at the water jacket.

would that explain the pulse of water leaking from the loose bolts at the top of the collector

 

[crashcourse101]

new gaskets

I bought my gaskets today .. Talked with the service manager and he felt real comfortable saying it was the gasket ..

I just dont want to change anyting and make it worse . any torque specs would be appriciated.

 

[crashcourse101]

Still bogs

So, I changed my exhaust gaskets collector gasket nice and tight sounds good runs great..... (Out of water)

Still getting water in cylinder #2 not alot its no to the point of hydrolock but it just bogs bad...

I need more Ideas please..

 

[seadoosnipe]

work....

Sorry to get back to you so late....just busy as hell. Here, at work, at home. Oh, and on the water......

How did the old gasket look? Could you see any obvious signs that there was a leak? You may be looking for another source of the water.

Where the water comes into the engine, it crosses the head cover, going into the tuned pipe. If your water was in both pistons or alternating, I'd say you might have a bad gasket where the tuned pipe bolts up (4 bolts) to the exhaust manifold. But because it's always #2 cylinder, I figured it would be specific to the gasket on the water jacket at that cylinder.

I'm thinking of other things but not being there, makes it hard. It seems that wherever it's coming from, is going to be specific. The "0" ring seal at the head of #2 cylinder is about the only thing left. But I sure hate you pull the head without being sure.

Start the engine without water. Run it for 15 to 30 seconds at ilde. Then, kill the engine and do a compression test in that cylinder (might go ahead and check the other too)...........re-post. If you don't hear from me within 12 hours, send me a PM........

 

[crashcourse101]

Congrats on your new title

The gasket was some cheap gasket with the little dimples and it did seem like it could have been leaking in there. The one I put on camee from a seadoo dealership.

How much water pressure does it pump through?
surely not more than 150psi
if so than maybe I should check compression in water...

Well I actually did pull the head yesterday .. (monday) and there were some tears/or rough spots on the o-ring. I know this wasnt the best thing to do but I robbed one from my parts ski.

I know the o-ring seems very vital to my issue but is there any where else (a seal on the head) the water could be leaking in from ?

Thats is how I checked it yesterday with the setup minus the new exhaust gaskets and collector. It was 146 #1 150#2 so hmmm..

could I be searching for a ghost ? is it just something else and its hiding behind water?

 

[timmyboy76]

Crash...here's the difference, just to throw out there
...Re: seadoo 657 vs 657x whats the diff?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deck hiegth is the distance fron the top edge of the piston crown to the top edge of the clyinder sleeve.
For some dumb reason, the early 657 motor had pistons with very little deck hieght. The head has a squish band recessed into it to provide deck hieght. The problem was that it let the top ring get too hot as it was too close to the combustion above the piston. The ring could overheat and either lose tension or glow, causing detonation.
Sea Doo figured it out and made the engine case 1mm taller where the clyinders bolt down onto the cases ( in other words, they increased the distance of the gasket surface on the engine cases 1mm further away from the centerline of the crankshaft). Using the same clyinders in both motors allowed the piston to sit 1mm lower in the bores. Then they used a head without the squish recessed into the head to bring the squish back into spec. This allows the top rings to run much cooler, last longer and not create detonation.
This is why you need to know the parts when mix matching parts on these motors, so you do not run a head without a squish cut on a motor that needs a squish cut recessed into the head or vise versa..

 

[timmyboy76]

Crash....when you said this..Thats is how I checked it yesterday with the setup minus the new exhaust gaskets and collector. It was 146 #1 150#2 so hmmm..
Did that mean, you have yet to install new gaskets, or you have, and still find'n water on plug?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Head.....

The "0" ring your referring to is the red colored one, below the head cover, right? Well, the one I have in question is the one under the head itself.

If you take the cover off, then the head bolts off, you'll expose the water jacket, surrounding the piston. If this "0" ring is bad, then water can and will enter from there.

Your wondering, "well how can the water get past 150# of pressure?" Easy, ....when the piston is on the down stroke. During the down stroke, fuel is being sucked into the cylinder, there is no pressure at that point. Every time the cylinder drops, if you got a breach in your water jacket, then, it will suck the water in with it.

But, it should be exposed by the "warm" compression test. That's why I asked you to do it again. So, with the compression so good, I'm lost for answers at the moment.

 

[derek]

hi. tennessee. means probably not salt water, but check this anyhow. the groove the o-ring is in and the area on the head that seals to it. look for corrosion-rust holes. in salt, the o-ring groove will rot through to the combustion chamber, and the head will just get pits from the o-ring area out to the head bolts. if so, throw the offending parts out. ok; aluminum is getting about a buck a pound if you wanna take them to a scrap guy.

 

[crashcourse101]

Crash....when you said this..Thats is how I checked it yesterday with the setup minus the new exhaust gaskets and collector. It was 146 #1 150#2 so hmmm..
Did that mean, you have yet to install new gaskets, or you have, and still find'n water on plug?

I did change gaskets after and still problem exists...

 

[crashcourse101]

The "0" ring your referring to is the red colored one, below the head cover, right? Well, the one I have in question is the one under the head itself.

If you take the cover off, then the head bolts off, you'll expose the water jacket, surrounding the piston. If this "0" ring is bad, then water can and will enter from there.

Your wondering, "well how can the water get past 150# of pressure?" Easy, ....when the piston is on the down stroke. During the down stroke, fuel is being sucked into the cylinder, there is no pressure at that point. Every time the cylinder drops, if you got a breach in your water jacket, then, it will suck the water in with it.

But, it should be exposed by the "warm" compression test. That's why I asked you to do it again. So, with the compression so good, I'm lost for answers at the moment.

I will try again but I think for tonight I am gonna clean the carbs out just to be sure its getting the right amount of fuel ..

I was talking about the o-ring on the top of the cylinder black slim in a groove squished between the head and the jugs correct?

 

[crashcourse101]

hi. tennessee. means probably not salt water, but check this anyhow. the groove the o-ring is in and the area on the head that seals to it. look for corrosion-rust holes. in salt, the o-ring groove will rot through to the combustion chamber, and the head will just get pits from the o-ring area out to the head bolts. if so, throw the offending parts out. ok; aluminum is getting about a buck a pound if you wanna take them to a scrap guy.

Thanks I will check that tonight also

 

[crashcourse101]

Thank you for all your help

Ok 2 down 2 more to go ...

I feel like a jackass . I get home pulled the arrestor off started putting seafoam everywhere. I do swearby the stuff it has helped me get everything I own running. We take them to the lake to make sure its the business.

Low and behold after trolling around for 5 minutes or so it plained out and took off . I didnt pull the carbs off just shot the seafoam in all the gas ports.
The trim does not work , I tried to hotwire the motor but nothing.anything where do I start motor ?

I did take a spill trying to soak my buddy who was on my other ski both of us still fully clothed... like I said just to start them lol ended up making a short lake trip ...