94 seadoo xp has spark but wont start.

[holorinhal]

Hello New to boards and need some help.
I have a 94 xp and the motor wont start. The ski has a new battery and turns over like a champ. I have checked and it has spark. I have cleaned the carbs, and checked compretion and the cylinders are in the mid to high 140 range.
the motor tries to fire periodicly but wont light off. Even if I sparay starter fluid it wont even start for a second. Any one have any ideas. I would like to go thru the rest of the fuel system. How would I verify that the fuel is getting to the carbs and thru the carbs to fuel the engine?.. Thanks for any help....H

 

[Bills86e]

Remove the airbox and fuel supply line. Cut a one foot piece of fuel line and attach to the carb supply nipple. half fill a shot-glass with fuel and put the fuel line in and crank the engine. If it drinks the fuel, that means the fuel pump is working. Take the fuel return line off and put a 2' piece of FL on the nipple and other into the shot glass and repete. If it spits into the glass-routes, you need to find whats wrong with the
fuel delivery. To do that, put the fuel supply line into a beer bottle as a catch, and use your garden compressor to air-chuck a few psi into the return line, this will balloon the gas tank a little and gas should flow out the supply into the bottle. Open the gas cap to stop the pressurized flow into the bottle. look for any air or gas leaks when slowly inserting a few psi. Too much air will blow the water filter/separator cup off. So be gentle.

Do this outside, not in the garage. no smoking!

 

[holorinhal]

Ok so i put the 1' line on ilet ,fillet with 1/2 shot, and cranked. the line was empty w,not even a drop, when I pulled the line off. Next I rempved the return and gas initially poured out fron the line. I attached a 2' fuel line and cranked. The line did not spit,rather a small steady stream quickly filled the glass. I am going back out to do the presure test.

 

[holorinhal]

ok so I did the presure test an the fuel flows freely in to the botle. So I gues that means fuel is getting to the carb.
When I apply fuel choke a mist of fuel sprays out the top of the mag carb and nothing from the pto carb. do not know if that means any thing.
I let it sit for a few, then spray som starter fluid press the throttle to open buter flies then let off and crank, the engine does a quick fire, not even a half a second and thats it. the when cranking you can head the engine trying to fire sporadicly but just wont fire and run. also after cranking for a few second ,either with or without the choke ,the plugs are just barely wet at all.
I am going to put a coulpe drops directly to cylinder.

 

[Bills86e]

Not drinking tells us the mag carbs fuel pump is not working, OR it cannot push fuel thru the carbs, back into the bafel. Remove the pulse line
check that and case nipple for clogs useing a wire & air-chuck. Only use pre-mix fuel when hand feeding into the arrestor or the *plugs holes.

go thru the carbs, read the sticky at forum top. Do you have grey Tempo fuel lines in your ski?

 

[holorinhal]

Bill when I filled the inlet line with 1/2 shot glass of fuel and cranked, the fuel dissapeared. That means it did drink the fuel, right?
I have allready removed and cleaned (not rebuild) the carbs.
Yes I do have the gray lines, but have allready purchased new black fuel line.
I will check the pulse line.

 

[Bills86e]

Yes, it now means the carb fuel pump is not sucking fuel from the on or reserve, whichever you have the selector dialed to. any loose line connection or the separator cup are where air can leak in to the fuel supply line. A clogged selector switch can be fixed or replaced.

 

[holorinhal]

So I gues i am confused . if the inlet test worked and the carb did drink the fuel and the return line test showed fuel not spitting, but a small steady stream flowing out, and the presure test(when blowing air in from the the return to presureize the tank) showed fuel free flowing from the suply line to the catch bottle. Doesnt this mean that the fuel circuit is working properly?

 

[Bills86e]

yes, and you should see any leaks. Your answers leads to the carbs circuits are clogged. Suggest you rebuild them.

 

[holorinhal]

yes, and you should see any leaks. Your answers leads to the carbs circuits are clogged. Suggest you rebuild them.

If the machine sits for a few minutes and I put the choke full on it will fire and run for one second and die. I did a thorogh cleaning of the carbs but I will order a rebuild kit and tear them back apart, clean and rebuild. In the mean time I will take apart the fuel selector and. Try to clean it. I will also go ahead and replace all the fuel lines. When I pesureized the tank, I did not see any other leaks any where else or hear any air, besides the fuel coming out of the supply line into the bottle.

 

[Bills86e]

Sticky at forum top explains how to clean a valve properly. check out the whole thread.

 

[holorinhal]

Sticky at forum top explains how to clean a valve properly. check out the whole thread.

Thanks for all the help. Just out of curriosity, is it possible that the timing could be off? How would I go about checking the timing?

 

[holorinhal]

Bill, I have been reding your thread on carb adjustments. I read in the article where You said that for the carbs to work the flame arresor must be on. After the carb cleaning I have been trying to start with the flame arrestor off. Could that be part of my problem?

 

[Bills86e]

Yes, The stock flame arrestor has the flow resistence to help draw gas into the venturi.

 

[holorinhal]

Ok I put the flame arrester on and still no difference. - took the fuel seletor off and it really did not seem to be restrited, but I sarted cleaning it any way and I think I messed up the rubber piece inside so now I have to get another one. I think I will try to bypass the selecctor just to rule that out as the problem. Is ther any thing special to that other than a T to conect the fuel and reserve lines? Other than that the only thing left to try is a carb rebuild and I am still waiting for the kis to come in.

 

[holorinhal]

Is ther any way to visually verify that fuel getting to the cilynders? If I put the choke full on and crank I get a mist of fuel spray out. Woulsnt that mean fuel is reching the carb? If so with choke off should I be able to see fuel squiting out of the venturi?

 

[brock1]

Yes you should see fuel. But i see you say that you have spark? How did you check the spark if you checked it by taking out the plugs and rolling it over and seen you had spark then maybe that could be your problem. Just because you see spark when the plugs are out of the engine dosent mean that they are firing inside the engine when they are under pressure. It takes alot for a plug to fire under compression so if you havent already try to replacxe your plugs first and give it a try. Its a simple fix that could save you alot of money

 

[holorinhal]

Yes you should see fuel. But i see you say that you have spark? How did you check the spark if you checked it by taking out the plugs and rolling it over and seen you had spark then maybe that could be your problem. Just because you see spark when the plugs are out of the engine dosent mean that they are firing inside the engine when they are under pressure. It takes alot for a plug to fire under compression so if you havent already try to replacxe your plugs first and give it a try. Its a simple fix that could save you alot of money

Yes I have replaced the plugs it has bran new plugs in it, as a mater of fact, I have swaped out between two brand new sets of plugs. I have checked spark by hooking a timming light and looking for steady consistant strobe flash and all seem fine. Is there any other way to Verify spark other than visually seeing it?
I have looked insidethe carb, while cranking and do not see where fuel is comming out the venturis but if the flame arrester has to be on to draw fuel, then how would I really know for sure?

 

[holorinhal]

What about timing? Could the timing be off? It has an intermtent firing like the timing is off. How would I go about verifying the timing is correct?

 

[holorinhal]

Is there a way to make a pop off teter rather than buy one?

 

[holorinhal]

So no body has any more thoughts on this problem?
Ok well her is what I have found. I Put in a T at the fuel selector. I used a white transparent T and can see fuel being pumped thru it when cranking.I looked down the carbs from the top while cranking and I cannot see any fuel coming out of the venturies. I took the carbs back off for a rebuild and when I tookthe suply and return line off they were full of fuel when I took the carbs apart the carbs were full of fuel. The only thing that looks suspicious is the last bowl wher the retun nipple is looks like it has been dry for a while , not the side with the needle an seat but the other side. So I am pretty sure the carbs are getting fuel to them and into them but not to the cilynders. All the passage ways seem to be clear

 

[Bills86e]

What is the compression? What do the *plugs look like? Gas goes bad, a chemical change, in 3-4 weeks. 99% of Seadoo probs are fuel system related. Use Marine Stabil at every fill-up to lenthen gas life and lubricate the carbs internals.

 

[holorinhal]

What is the compression? What do the *plugs look like? Gas goes bad, a chemical change, in 3-4 weeks. 99% of Seadoo probs are fuel system related. Use Marine Stabil at every fill-up to lenthen gas life and lubricate the carbs internals.

The compression is 140/145 and it has a full fresh tank of fuel. Plug are brand new and clean and practically dry after cranking a few revolutions.

 

[Bills86e]

You can easily test the fuel delivery system by removeing the supply & return, put supply line in a catch bottle, and air-chuck a few psi into the return to tank line. Not TOO MUCH or it will balloon, open gas cap after fuel flows into catch bottle to stop fuel flow. Your system is primed. On the Mag carb is a diaphram fuel pump that does two things, suck gas out of the fuel bafel, push it thru carbs and back into the bafel. It gets a push/pull breath from the lower case engine pulse nipple, so make sure that works.

If you squirt a little pre-mix gas into the airbox & *plug holes,crank, it should start & run on its own.

 

[holorinhal]

You can easily test the fuel delivery system by removeing the supply & return, put supply line in a catch bottle, and air-chuck a few psi into the return to tank line. Not TOO MUCH or it will balloon, open gas cap after fuel flows into catch bottle to stop fuel flow. Your system is primed. On the Mag carb is a diaphram fuel pump that does two things, suck gas out of the fuel bafel, push it thru carbs and back into the bafel. It gets a push/pull breath from the lower case engine pulse nipple, so make sure that works.

If you squirt a little pre-mix gas into the airbox & *plug holes,crank, it should start & run on its own.

Yes I have done all that, refer to post # 4. I picked up the rebuild kits along with new needle and seats yesterday. That seems to be my last fuel delivery option to try, every thing else seems to be working properly. I will check back after the carbs are rebuilt and installed.