94 Gtx

[oldchevyscadillacs]

Hey new user here.

i'm working on a GTX that i got from my farther in law . it's been sitting for two years. He had just put a new engine in it and then the battery died and he parked it . I'm going to get it going agian but wanted to know what all i should be looking at before i even attempt to start it. I bought a new battery , new plugs and fresh oil and gas for it. any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

C. L.

 

[kustomkarl]

Hey C.L. welcome to the seadoo forum. Well how far did your father in-law get with the GTX? Was it running at all? Did he store it with gas in the engine? I would start by adding a little wd-40 down the cylinders, and if the carbs had gas in them I would take them apart and check the filter inside and get rid of the old gas and any residue still in them from sitting. If he had it running before he stored it that is a plus. If not, then ask him where he left off if he remembers and go from there. You need spark, fuel and compression to get
it fired. I would check the compression just so you know what it is and it isn't too low to fire up. If you don't have any manual, you might think of joining as a premium member here so you can download a authentic seadoo manual to help get it running. It has great troubleshooting areas, with wire diagrams and pictures of components that could be useful if the GTX isn't all the way together. You can read it on line as a pdf file, or download it and print it off for you own personal and privet use. Click on the link at the top of the page under "Seadoo Manuals" for details. It isn't free but it is the best deal around and it helps keep the forum alive.

If you still need more help come back and ask away... this is a friendly place with lots of active members eager to help with advice for solutions.

Karl

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

He had it running, and it is all togthere. He only ran it fora few times and then either the battery (which is what im assuming it was ) or the starter went out and then it sat. It did have gas in it with some stabil additive in it. the oil tank is completely empty tho. is wd-40 really the best for putting down the cylinders? or something like Marvel myster oil or just the 2 cyl oil for it. i'm going to get the manual it's a must have . I'm used to working on old car's chev's and nash's the pwc is new to me! thanks C. L.

 

[kustomkarl]

Well wd-40 is a good lubricant that won't foul the plugs and will help protect the rings and cylinder when you turn it over. It will burn clean when it fires up and won't gum up the rings. I have used it for years even if you just going to store the machine for a while because of it's lubrication value. Check the carbs out, add fresh gas and add to the oil ( if it's it still injected) check for spark, and fire it up. When you check for compression be sure to put the plug
caps on the grounding studs to prevent damage to the electrical system. If it doesn't fire up give us a shout, and I'm sure you get a quick response.

Karl

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

looking at the manual sections. i dont see a specific shop manual for the 94 gtx the one that comes close is a 96 shop manual for all models. will that one be the same for the 94 models?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Welcome OldChevy....

Welcome to the forum oldchevy and your in the right place to get your "Doo" up and running.
It's good to see someone of my beginnings into the world of internal combustion engines in the forum. I got my start in old chevys as a kid. My first one was a 63 Impala super sport. Then, my 68 Camaro convertible. My father raised me on Chevys. My first rebuild was a 283 cu.in and my fav was a 350 that I bored over to a 393. That one I made a HP motor out of, twice. I did a couple 327's, but could never find a 4 bolt main, . 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2 ...etched in my memory forever I'm sure.
I know why you ask about the Marvel Mystery oil also. Yes, if it's been sitting up that long and you want to make sure the rings are freed up, I can't think of a better product in doing that. But as KustomKarl has said, it really isn't a very good product over the long haul in providing an anti-moisture barrier film on your metal surfaces. I'd only use a half ounce or so of the Mystery oil in each cylinder to ensure the rings are free, then roll it over to blow it out and add the WD-40. You can also use Cosmoline. That's what I use.
Good luck with your new toy..........and your old ones too..:rofl:

 

[kustomkarl]

C.L. I checked the manuals for the 94GTX and it is in the library under the heading. I found that over time helping out other members that a lot of the information is redundant on the engines but only change by model because of the different configurations of the Hull design. I have been in the water craft area a long time and have always preferred to use a lubricant that will dissipate the water, and add a lubrication. I have used marvel mystery oil too but in my opinion I prefer to use something that will burn clean after it's use. I'm have been heavy into 2 strokes and hate replacing plugs because of any oil fouling. This is what makes this a forum a great place...we all have different preferences, and it's not just one sided.

Karl

 

[dieselman]

Not to start any thing but W-D-40 is not the best for putting down the cylinders the rings just scrap it off and your left with no lubercating value. Your best to use plain old oil a cap full down each hole and turn it over by hand. Now if it is siezed use a good penatrating oil and let sit for a while then try to turn it by hand. I took the rings out of a ski-doo by using WD-40 so I will never use it for that again.

 

[kustomkarl]

we all have different opinions.

Not to start any thing but W-D-40 is not the best for putting down the cylinders the rings just scrap it off and your left with no lubercating value. Your best to use plain old oil a cap full down each hole and turn it over by hand. Now if it is siezed use a good penatrating oil and let sit for a while then try to turn it by hand. I took the rings out of a ski-doo by using WD-40 so I will never use it for that again.

This is why I love this place. I have friends that swear that starting fluid is the best thing to start up a 2 stroke engine...(it has no lubricating value). I'm not suggesting running it on wd-40 it is just to penetrate and aid in rotating the engine, followed by gas and oil mixture to fire it up. I used this method track side at jet ski races, on back up engines between heats when our race ski went bad, with a 20 minute break-in...than a full fledge race. Never a problem. Again it is just my words of experience, and tech training at Kawasaki tec school...oh did I mention that. Just my opinion.

Karl

 

[seadoosnipe]

My point exactly....

That was my point exactly Dieselman.........Marvel Mystery oil has been around for 100 years.......(really don't know how long) but it's formulated to add to your gas to clean and unstick rings and valves that are caught up in a carbon groove. That is why I think oldchevy mentioned the oil. It was widely used in the 70's before fuel injected engines came around as an additive to keep valves clean and rings from sticking. Karl, it is burnable in the engine but you must use it in accordance to the instructions because to much, will cause heavy smoke.
What diesel man says about the length of time the WD-40 remains on the cylinder as an anti-moisture product is correct. It will be removed with one pass of the pistons rings, it's not a true lubricating product. Sure, it stops doors from squeaking, but it was first designed to protect electrical systems from moisture by a company in the 50's contracted by the military (if memory serves me right). But if you use it on a regular basis, like I did the Cosmoline during the time I had my heads off, then you can't beat it for protection. On the other hand, Marvel Mystery oil and WD-40 are two very different products.
OldChevy, use it on an old motor that has set up for a while, to free up the rings and any bearings that may be a little sticky but then, go back with a product that provides a barrier against moisture, like WD-40. Use it often though, till summer..................good luck!....:cheers:

 

[dieselman]

Again not wanting to start any thing but I have worked for the Valvoline oil co. for 25 years and WD-40 would not be my first choice. Like I said in my first post I did use it and it siezed the rings to the bore and I had to replace the rings. But to be fair it was my fault I used WD-40 to flog the engine over the summer and had a hard time starting it the next fall to the point were there was no oil so it siezed.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Experience....

I remember your experience in oils from the research we worked on some time ago, "mineral vs. synthetic".
I like WD-40, but I use mostly Cosmoline. It has about the same characteristics as WD-40, it's just what I buy. I think it has it's uses though. I just put my heads back on, but every other day, when I had them off, I'd go out there and spray inside the rotary valve (carbs off too) and then, coat the walls of the piston sleeves with it too. It works great in that capacity. But WD really isn't much of a lubricant. If you read the can, it does say it's primary purpose is to displace water............
Thanks for the input dieselman!..........
Now, between the two of us, we should really get KustomKarl going on this. He's a staunch supporter of WD........................:rofl:

 

[robin savell lloyd]

wd40 I heard some where that the name came from water displacement and it took 40 times going back to the drawing board to get what they were looking for. I do not know if this is true but it sounds like it may be

 

[seadoosnipe]

Researched.....

Yes Robin, you are correct. I had to do a little snooping. I thought I remembered it being manafactured for the military first, before going to the general public. Well, I was close. It was manafactured for displacing water on missles being built by the Aeronautical industry. Below is a copy/paste from the WD-40 website..........you go Robin!.....
In 1953, a fledgling company called Rocket Chemical Company and its staff of three set out to create a line of rust-prevention solvents and degreasers for use in the aerospace industry, in a small lab in San Diego, California.

It took them 40 attempts to get the water displacing formula worked out. But they must have been really good, because the original secret formula for WD-40—which stands for Water Displacement perfected on the 40th try—is still in use today.

Convair, an aerospace contractor, first used WD-40 to protect the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion. The product actually worked so well that several employees snuck some WD-40 cans out of the plant to use at home.

A few years following WD-40's first industrial use, Rocket Chemical Company founder Norm Larsen experimented with putting WD-40 into aerosol cans, reasoning that consumers might find a use for the product at home as some of the employees had. The product made its first appearance on store shelves in San Diego in 1958.

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

94 GTX starter

Ok I pulled the starter and bench tested it and its no good. any suggestions on the best place to get a new one? also, when i pulled it water was released from the houseing it bolts into is that normal?

C. L.

 

[ScubaDoo]

There shouldn't be any water in the housing as such. The housing is the mag cover that contains the flywheel and stator assy. The gasket might be bad and allowing water to get inside. If this is the case you need to remove the cover and replace the gasket or on that doo it might be a large "o"ring.
There are vender's on the home page or in the links that might be able to supply you with a starter for you doo.

ScubaDoo

 

[kustomkarl]

I'm open minded

Again not wanting to start any thing but I have worked for the Valvoline oil co. for 25 years and WD-40 would not be my first choice. Like I said in my first post I did use it and it siezed the rings to the bore and I had to replace the rings. But to be fair it was my fault I used WD-40 to flog the engine over the summer and had a hard time starting it the next fall to the point were there was no oil so it siezed.

dieselman, I have a open mind to things like this. I agree with your point that wd-40 isn't the best lubriciation, but for what C.L. needed was just a small amount of lubriciation with a bigger concern for condinsation in the engine. There is less chance of fouling the plugs with wd-40 than even using 2 stroke oil. I have used marvel mystery oil in instances where the engine needed lubercation to prevent a seizure, or if it sat for a very long time dry, to the elements. I have never used wd-40 to the extremes that it caused a seizure.
I didn't go into detail as I didn't think it was needed as it was just my advise to him. I have a background in the petroleum field also, as I worked as a petroleum inspector for 2 years in the field for a company called Saybolt, based out of Kenilworth, N.J.. I inspected petrol products in terminals, on ships and barges. :cheers:

Karl

 

[seadoosnipe]

Water displacement...

Isn't it funny how subjects take on the issue of debate?.....we must all be bored.........:rofl:
Karl, if you read my post above on the research of WD-40, when and why it was formulated, you'll see that outside it's primary purpose of being an anti-moisture product, it's also a cleaner degreaser, which to me, means it can't have much in the way of providing lubrication.
Believe me, I didn't know that until I read it. I've used it in several circumstances for the same reasons you do. I prefer Cosmoline, which in itself is about the same thing as WD, just a different name, but I was a bit surprised that it was considered a cleaner/degreaser......
If you'd like, google the research on WD-40, it was a very interesting read. Sorry I didn't copy and paste the link. I did it solely on the idea of what RobinSavel had said. It took 40 attempts to make it, which it did and the WD stands for "water displacement".............funny how these things come along like that.
I remember there is a weird way that "duct(k) tape came along too. It had to do with keeping the armies ammunition sealed and dry while in combat, so that moisture wouldn't get into the powdered shells.........wow, have we come a long way with that stuff too!..............:cheers:

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

Well i got my starter back today and got it put in , i took the plugs out to spray in some WD-40 and turn it over a couple times. I got a great shower from the amount of water coming out of the holes so i took the cylinder head covers off to check out the pistons. The pistons look like they have been around the block but move freely and the bores look good no scoring. not pitting. i think the water was in the exhaust side and got pushed out when i turned it over. Wondering tho if i should rebuild the top end, Can i do it with the bottom end still in the ski? Or should i just disassemble everything i can and dry it out good and hope for it to start up agian?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Water in cylinders....

It's not uncommon for this to happen. It's not suppose to, but it happens. It's normally caused from someone turning on the water before starting the engine or being towed over 15 mph without pinching off the water hose.

Put it all back together and if the compression is o.k., give it a try. If you clean everything before you put it back together, then you don't have to worry about spinning the motor over to blow out clean. When putting together, check the red "0" rings in the heads top cover, you may want to put a little sealant on them since your reusing.

Let us know how it works out!

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

more progress/regress

Well after not likeing the way the pistons look, i pulled the cylinder bores and discovered the pto side piston has scattered half a ring. and the bottom end is filled with water and oil mix. Im going to have to rebuild completely. is my best bet to mail this off to SBT ( or someone else?) and have them send me the new one with a warranty? or rebuild myself.

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

rebuilding

Decided I want to rebuild this myself even if it does cost me a lil extra, I can trust my own work. i hate sending it off to a shop i dont know; trust ;and is at the other end of the country ( although my brother lives in florida) . Does anyone have a complete rebuild kit put togthere for the 657. or do i need to piece it togthere from sevral. Also my pistons say 1.00 on the top is that the stock size?

thanks C.L.:hurray:

 

[oldchevyscadillacs]

pulled pump and driveshaft

pulled pump and driveshaft today broke three out of the four bolts so now im going to have to drill those out . going to pull the engine Sunday and go from there. i'm going to replace impellar and wear ring while its apart. but im makeing a little progress!