657 Confusion Again (Top End Exchange, Vendors Don't List Correct Parts/Engines)

[RocketFox650]

None of the vendors list a GTX from 1994 with a 657 engine. It's like they went from the 587 to the 657x. I've already asked about this once, and was told "Sea-Doo never sent out machines that didn't match their engine and year, etc", but yet again I've got 4 GTX made with 2 different engines, and I know they're stock. The EIN on one of them is distinctly labeled 657cc, 2 are 657x, I just confirmed a 4th one in my yard is 657cc. I had to download a different manual year to find a 657x listing, 1995, because 1994 didn't list that engine. Those aren't my skis, I've never seen their titles, but the HIN end in F595. A fourth one ends in J495, it's a 657, and the first one I started on ends 394 and it's a plain 657. The stock mirrors aren't the same ones listed for 94-95, but occasionally I can get something similar or universal with 1994 only. They're not intact, but the original base is still there and it's a black plastic strip and one still has a blank rubber boot. The 595 hulls have the newer white oval plastic housing to dual posts, idk what's underneath. One of the PWC model generalization guides helps a lot, kinda says when and where they introduced stuff (still holding out hard for a 98 800 SPX), but I've had this problem before with electrical on GSX skis. There's a mid year change in the computer, so I've got a 696, 697, and I think a 797 hull with 2 totally different harnesses and electronics, even the gauges change. I kinda wanna add a side mechanical tach pod to have both mech speed/tach on one ski. Yeah, anyways, engines, it's obvious what I have by tag, but the exchange programs don't list my GTX engine as an option. If it was just a matter of the jug, I'd stick a 657x jug on it and pretend I magically got performance, but there's a significant height difference between the jugs, basically the entire tolerance for squish is milled off an X jug right off the bat, so I imagine there's no cross contamination possible without serious issues. The 2 X motors I lumped together, the owner wants top ends, but he doesn't like the price and wants 657 kits because he's shady and I don't need to get into all that. I imagine the labels are just a reference guide and I'll specify my engine not my model when ordering, but I thought it worth bringing up again, because it's easy right here to catch, but what if I was ordering something like carb kits and based it on the year? Bad example, but there's different things that I order by model year and engine isn't always specified. I mean I can't even look up a wear ring for 97 GSX most of the time and get the correct search/vendor results. Sea-Doo didn't send out different engines/years sounds real nice and factual, like there's a line in a sand, Jan 1 they just trash anything left over and retool at midnight. But the HIN guide says it's month/year single/dual number year, and when I have "different" year numbers, it seems like there's blend more often than not. It's stupid, but the point fits well, seats and graphics are another parydox for another debate. Sometimes it seems exactly like they changed out those things at the stroke of midnight.

 

[RocketFox650]

 

[mikidymac]

I really don't know why you keep beating this dead horse in different threads..... but I really want to help you on this.

The last two digits of the HIN are always the year of the ski, no confusion or mystery about that ever. Seadoo never did different engines in the same year hull and model.
Graphics were never wrong either.
For your 696, 697 and 797 examples...
The model year is always correct. They start making them the previous year so they are ready for showrooms the next model year, just like cars. The date of manufacturer is typically before the model year begins.

696 was made in 1996 and is a 1996 model year and is a blue and white GSX.
697 was made in late 1996 and is a 1997 red and white GSX.
797 was made in early 1997 and is a 1997 red and white GSX.

It would really help if you posted pictures of your skis like I have asked so we can help you sort out what you have.

The only way you have the wrong engine in the ski is if someone swapped them out.

The 657 was introduced in 1993 and was only available in the XP
The 1994 GTX used the 657 engine.
In 1994 the 657 was only in the SPX and GTX
In 1995 the 657 was gone.

The 657X was introduced in 1994 only in the XP
The 657X was the only 650 available in 1995 and was only in the GTX and SPX.

So the 657 was only around for 2 years and was only in the 1993 XP and 1994 SPX and GTX, that's it.
The 657X was only around for two years and was only in the 1994 XP and 1995 GTX and SPX.

If you are sure you have an "X" engine just order parts for an "X" engine and don't worry about the hull and the same for a standard 657.

 

[mikidymac]

Here is a standard 657 kit...

657 XP /SPX /XP 1993 1994​

Click to expand
Brand: SBT
Code: 62-103
Quantity in Basket:None

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$379.00

Here is the 657X kit....

657 X GTX /SPX 1994 1995​

Click to expand
Brand: SBT
Code: 62-104
Quantity in Basket:None

---

$495.00

 

[RocketFox650]

I really don't know why you keep beating this dead horse in different threads..... but I really want to help you on this.

The last two digits of the HIN are always the year of the ski, no confusion or mystery about that ever. Seadoo never did different engines in the same year hull and model.
Graphics were never wrong either.
For your 696, 697 and 797 examples...
The model year is always correct. They start making them the previous year so they are ready for showrooms the next model year, just like cars. The date of manufacturer is typically before the model year begins.

696 was made in 1996 and is a 1996 model year and is a blue and white GSX.
697 was made in late 1996 and is a 1997 red and white GSX.
797 was made in early 1997 and is a 1997 red and white GSX.

It would really help if you posted pictures of your skis like I have asked so we can help you sort out what you have.

The only way you have the wrong engine in the ski is if someone swapped them out.

The 657 was introduced in 1993 and was only available in the XP
The 1994 GTX used the 657 engine.
In 1994 the 657 was only in the SPX and GTX
In 1995 the 657 was gone.

The 657X was introduced in 1994 only in the XP
The 657X was the only 650 available in 1995 and was only in the GTX and SPX.

So the 657 was only around for 2 years and was only in the 1993 XP and 1994 SPX and GTX, that's it.
The 657X was only around for two years and was only in the 1994 XP and 1995 GTX and SPX.

If you are sure you have an "X" engine just order parts for an "X" engine and don't worry about the hull and the same for a standard 657.

I was hoping you'd chime in.

Here is a standard 657 kit...

657 XP /SPX /XP 1993 1994​

View attachment 55467
Click to expand
Brand: SBT
Code: 62-103
Quantity in Basket:None

---

$379.00

Here is the 657X kit....

657 X GTX /SPX 1994 1995​

View attachment 55468
Click to expand
Brand: SBT
Code: 62-104
Quantity in Basket:None

---

$495.00

I was hoping you'd chime in. I brought it up again because I've got 2 HIN numbers at opposite ends of the spectrum- 394 & 495 with "657" engines in them, still have all the factory paint, original clips, etc on them, and I know their backgrounds, so I know they're for sure the engines they were purchased new with. The "657x" skis, well one has been apart more than once, so you could conclude it's not original, but then every single identifying number on them including their state issued craft number, points to them being together since new. Since I know they're 95's, it's no big deal, they're supposed to be X motors. But.... The assembled I'm 93 for 94 ski has a 657. Makes sense. And the assembled 94 for 95, is also a "657". Sure, it's older than the other 2 with X motors, but your whole argument is on that same principle. I can literally walk out to my driveway and show you at least 4 skis that don't match what's "supposed" to be in them. But in support of your argument, it's not exactly easy to get concrete answers on every detail or change SeaDoo made, or when, 30 yrs after the fact. That's why I ask questions. Idk why you seem irritated, or personally offended by it, lol. Considering I work on between 3-10 different skis a day most days, I see a LOT of weird stuff. These are super popular right now here, and because I make people source their own parts usually, I spend a significant amount of time looking up parts. Did you not notice that the GTX isn't listed as a model in your 657 link? Sometimes a site will have a list of models in the description, but others it's just the title, and when you're looking by keywords or trying to convince someone with no mechanical ability to buy parts they get pretty stubborn about "well mine is an "xx" year "xxx" model, and this says..., so you must be wrong". Graphics and seats? Well, it's pretty hard to argue someone would go out and buy the previous or next year's color scheme and install it so long ago it appears weathered and damaged, but again, it's not like even SeaDoo parts catalogs with a graphics number is always helpful this far out. I can often look up AN original picture. In b&w. And I can find a picture that matches something on one of the history sites often. But Google SeaDoo SP history and give me a detailed link to even that models specific history... No, it's usually only a footnote in a generalized description of the model year and large changes. Hell, from SeaDoo you could order an entirely different graphic/seat kit for some years, and it's entirely stock, but you don't find references to that, sometimes even when you look specifically for that exact and only thing. I haven't had an issue with fuel parts yet, but electrical is another one that doesn't always line up properly and needs a bit more research some years/models. Remember, there's a lot of people just buying these for the first time ever now, so the only place they have to get information is going to be through Google or maybe ending up on one of the sites if they're interested enough. When most of what they find is vague or misleading, it's worth asking about, even if I already know looking at the engine tag what I'm going to order. Shit, you have no idea how frustrating some of that stuff can be. First learning and trying to trace a problem, but every answer is "bad gas" or they run on black magic, and then on top of that your parts don't match over half what you find, or over half the keyword searches you do, Google/here/PWC/GreenHulk/etc, start referencing SeaDoo half years. I mean we all started somewhere, and when you search a topic, what maybe 1/100 is actually useful and not just the same tired vague questions/answers.

I was going to comment on the fact that at least our exchanges are something less banal, but I remembered something- is the epoxy/potting the same on all the VTS housings year to year in your experience trying to melt them? We were talking about that and I didn't want to post what I did at first in case I fkd up someone else's work.

 

[mikidymac]

Not irritated at all.
I am more than willing to help you.

The aftermarket references are confusing and vague to say the least.

I have been working on and in love with Seadoos for 30 years now and know them pretty much inside out. I can only tell you that in all those years I have never seen or heard of a single Seadoo that ever was the wrong year or had the wrong engine. To say you have multiple with the wrong engine just doesn’t make sense to me. Not trying to say you are wrong, just saying it’s not something I have ever seen.