funinthesiun
New Member
I was told to purchase a 4 stroke rather than a 2 stroke and I was wondering what the advantage is to a 4 atroke, any insite?
-
This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.
4 stroke vs 2 stroke
- Thread starter funinthesiun
- Start date
- Status
funinthesiun
New Member
Having nothing but problems with it thinking of selling it, oil leak has been in the shop 3 times for same problem still leaking.
djredman99
New Member
If you want a newer ski, then your only option is a 4 stroke. Sea-doo phased out the 2 strokes around '05-'06, at which time I think they only had 2 models that still had a 2 stroke (GTI and 3D). The 2-stroke are much easier for a DIY mechanic to work on and parts tend to be much cheaper (plus less parts overall).
4-strokes tend to be more reliable when it comes to the naturally aspirated models (the 130 - 155 HP sea-doo models). As you add speed and acceleration, the reliability factor starts to decrease as does the maintenance costs such as the sea-doo superchargers on the 4-strokes, which should be rebuilt every 100 hours.
If you buy new, you have a warranty to cover you and you can purchase up to 5 years on it.
Do you plan to do your own work or take it to a shop to perform maintenance/repairs? Sounds as if you are a "take it to the shop" kind of guy, but doesn't exactly sound as though your shop has been all that good for you. Where are you taking it in Pittsburgh?
4-strokes tend to be more reliable when it comes to the naturally aspirated models (the 130 - 155 HP sea-doo models). As you add speed and acceleration, the reliability factor starts to decrease as does the maintenance costs such as the sea-doo superchargers on the 4-strokes, which should be rebuilt every 100 hours.
If you buy new, you have a warranty to cover you and you can purchase up to 5 years on it.
Do you plan to do your own work or take it to a shop to perform maintenance/repairs? Sounds as if you are a "take it to the shop" kind of guy, but doesn't exactly sound as though your shop has been all that good for you. Where are you taking it in Pittsburgh?
funinthesiun
New Member
I just purchased this ski this summer but have not been able to ride it, I would like to get this one running but am very flustrated, and for the amount of money I already have into it I know I will not get it back but I am thinking of cutting my loses and selling it. The PTO seal and bearing, mag gasket and all other seals that could be changed without removing the engine have been changed. I take it to a place in Cheswick for service.
djredman99
New Member
Performance Watercraft I am guessing. I've heard good and bad about them.
If you are looking to get a cheap ski, your best bet is an older 2-stroke. You can get a $1k-$3k ski and have a ton of fun with it. You may have to do a top-end rebuild on the 2-stroke every few years, which is roughly a $500 DIY job or $1k at a shop. Just depends on how much you ride it, how well you maintain it, and the particular motor. The lower HP engines tend to have a longer life than the higher HP engines.
Whoever told you to get a 4-stroke and not a 2-stroke, did they give you a reason?
If you are looking to get a cheap ski, your best bet is an older 2-stroke. You can get a $1k-$3k ski and have a ton of fun with it. You may have to do a top-end rebuild on the 2-stroke every few years, which is roughly a $500 DIY job or $1k at a shop. Just depends on how much you ride it, how well you maintain it, and the particular motor. The lower HP engines tend to have a longer life than the higher HP engines.
Whoever told you to get a 4-stroke and not a 2-stroke, did they give you a reason?
I'm biased because I'm a 2-stroke guy. If you want something fun to ride, something you can maintain yourself, something that requires little maintenance, and something economical to buy, and uses lots of gas, get a 2-stroke.
If you want something that's heavy, big, boat-like, something you have to take to the dealer for service, but doesn't use much gas, get a 4-tek.
Seriously, I might get hung for saying this on the SeaDoo forum, if I were looking a 4-storkes today I would certainly look at a Kawasaki, they're smaller, lighter, and more agile than the 4-teks.
Lou
If you want something that's heavy, big, boat-like, something you have to take to the dealer for service, but doesn't use much gas, get a 4-tek.
Seriously, I might get hung for saying this on the SeaDoo forum, if I were looking a 4-storkes today I would certainly look at a Kawasaki, they're smaller, lighter, and more agile than the 4-teks.
Lou
djredman99
New Member
So that he is not misled, not all 4-strokes use less gas than the 2-strokes. My 4 stroke at WOT(Wide open throttle) will burn through around 21 GPH (gallons per hour) where my 2-stroke at WOT will only burn through 14 GPH. It all in how you ride the thing, but as soon as you add a supercharger/turbo your 4-stroke has the ability to burn through gas very fast, faster than any 2 stroke that I know of.
At speeds below 45-50 mph my RXT-X is FAR better on gas than my GTX. Even with some holeshots.
I have the older style hull (08, so non-s3) and it takes the waves a lot better and drier than my 97 gtx yet is still very playful. The new S3 hulls feel way heavier. The RXT-X has 93 hours on it now and has given me zero problems except a hood strut going bad. I just put gas in it and check the fluids. (outside of flushing, etc that you will be doing to any ski)
I have the older style hull (08, so non-s3) and it takes the waves a lot better and drier than my 97 gtx yet is still very playful. The new S3 hulls feel way heavier. The RXT-X has 93 hours on it now and has given me zero problems except a hood strut going bad. I just put gas in it and check the fluids. (outside of flushing, etc that you will be doing to any ski)
bigJake
Well-Known Member
did you not check the ski out and have an idea of what you were getting into before buying it?
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
No need to mix oil in with the gas, clean clear exhaust (as long as it's running correctly of course!), and phenomenal cosmic horsepower! WooHoo!
Also the 4TEC engines are very very quiet (with factory sound supression system). And finally, they're much more environmentally friendly than the 2-stroke engines which have been phased out because they polluted a whole lot. We all want clean water to play in, who wants to jump in to water that smells like 2-stroke exhaust oil? Peeee-Uuuuu! :-(
With the 4-stroke comes added weight and complexity of course there's no getting around that. Your 4-stroke PWC is going to weigh more (but likely have far more horsepower) than it's 2-stroke counterpart.... there are some advantages to that though: they punch thru rough water with a much smoother ride as any heavier watercraft would be expected to. The supercharged models can attain some amazingly high speeds and the accelleration is just wicked. Superchargers are a wear item though and require periodic rebuilding... speed costs, how fast can you afford to go? Non-supercharged models are alot of fun too though their speeds are more similar to the 2-stroke predecessors as a result. They aren't really meant for jumping wakes and such, but I've seen Youtube videos of some guys in Australia jumping 12 foot ocean swells on RXT SeaDoo's (supercharged) and a 4-stroke Kawasaki (also supercharged)... they were getting tonnes of air time, looked terrifying to me but different strokes for different folks! LOL!
My suggestion is that you try a different shop for your problem... quit going back to the same place if they cannot seem to fix the problem!
Regards and good luck!
- Michael
BMANN06
Well-Known Member
I'll stay out of the 2 vs 4 debate ... I like them both ... But to the problem. It shouldn't really be that hard to a) figure out where the oil leak is. b) fix the leak.
I've had a 4 tec completely dissassembled. From what I can remember you would really only have an oil leak at the:
1. Oil pump (which is at the front of the engine)
2. Oil cooler (which is on the right hand side of block at the bottom)
3. Around Magneto/water pump housing (back of engine)
There is also a sensor on the back of the block on the bottom left, replacing all the gaskets and oil rings will not help if they are not installed following the shop manual directions. Trust me I've learned ... So I'd do some quick checks to see if you can find it, then take it to the shop and have them re-fix it or do what DJRedman posted and take it somewhere else.
I've had a 4 tec completely dissassembled. From what I can remember you would really only have an oil leak at the:
1. Oil pump (which is at the front of the engine)
2. Oil cooler (which is on the right hand side of block at the bottom)
3. Around Magneto/water pump housing (back of engine)
There is also a sensor on the back of the block on the bottom left, replacing all the gaskets and oil rings will not help if they are not installed following the shop manual directions. Trust me I've learned ... So I'd do some quick checks to see if you can find it, then take it to the shop and have them re-fix it or do what DJRedman posted and take it somewhere else.
red2blue
New Member
Biased?...nah. You believe kawi's are smaller and more agile than 4-Tec's?....right...point me to the one that'll out perform an RXP-X.
Please.
I never said a Kawa was faster, I said smaller and more agile. I don't really care to go 80mph on the water.
Lou
djredman99
New Member
Lou, have you ever rode a new ski, Sea-doo or Kawisaki? And if so, what ones? Just asking so I know how you got that opinion, the agile part that is.
The facts for "smaller" are out there:
2012 Sea-Doo
RXT-X 260 139.2 in.
RXP-X 260 130.6 in.
GTX 155/215 139.2 in.
GTR 215 132.6 in.
GTI SE 155/130 132.6 in.
GTS 130 132.6 in.
RXT-X 260 139.2 in.
RXP-X 260 130.6 in.
GTX 155/215 139.2 in.
GTR 215 132.6 in.
GTI SE 155/130 132.6 in.
GTS 130 132.6 in.
2012 Kawasaki
Ultra 300 LX 132.7 in.
Ultra 300X 132.7 in.
Ultra 260X 132.7 in.
Ultra 260LX 132.7 in.
Ultra LX 132.7 in.
STX-15F 122.8 in.
STX 122.8 in.
Ultra 300 LX 132.7 in.
Ultra 300X 132.7 in.
Ultra 260X 132.7 in.
Ultra 260LX 132.7 in.
Ultra LX 132.7 in.
STX-15F 122.8 in.
STX 122.8 in.
Obviously, Sea-Doo offers more watercraft BUT as you can see, the RXP-X is the smallest among the high performance machines.
If you could ride an RXP-X, I think you would be impressed by the agility, especially the 2012, which lets you lock your legs in to use you lower half to hang on. I can tell you from experience that being able to do so allows you very tight turns at high speed.
Even my RXT-X turns on a dime at speed, much tighter than my GSX Limited could and still hold (it would just spin out if I tried to do a tight turn too fast). You just got to make sure you make the turn with the ski! I have been thrown off going about 50-55 mph, ski turned, I didn't.
Yes I have ridden both, the Kawa was about a 2005 4-stroke, base model, the SeaDoo probably a 2004. They were comparable models (price wise). I'm not currently in the market for a new ski. I just picked up an almost mint 1996GSX (at least mechanically).
What I stated was just my opinion, to me the Kawa handled more like my 2-strokes, kinda like my 96GTI. I didn't like either ride as well as the ski's that I have now. The fact is I plan to keep my 2-strokes for as long as I can. I am strictly a recreational rider.
The fact is the SeaDoo rode very well, its just not what I'm looking for. In the future I will try to stay off the 4-tek threads and just keep my opinions to myself.
Oh, another reason I like the Kawasaki is the dealer. More knowledgeable, friendly and better service, I don't think I could bring myself to buy a new ski from the current SeaDoo dealer.
Lou
What I stated was just my opinion, to me the Kawa handled more like my 2-strokes, kinda like my 96GTI. I didn't like either ride as well as the ski's that I have now. The fact is I plan to keep my 2-strokes for as long as I can. I am strictly a recreational rider.
The fact is the SeaDoo rode very well, its just not what I'm looking for. In the future I will try to stay off the 4-tek threads and just keep my opinions to myself.
Oh, another reason I like the Kawasaki is the dealer. More knowledgeable, friendly and better service, I don't think I could bring myself to buy a new ski from the current SeaDoo dealer.
Lou
Last edited by a moderator:
red2blue
New Member
Don't keep you opinions to yourself...no one meant any real disrespect.
A stealership's a stealership....I don't care what they sell. Business is business....but....the tech's now...they could push me in one direction or another.
To each his own. Been riding for a few years now...not flat water runnin either...well it's a rarity....still. The big Kawis out perform just about everything in rough water....the new yami's ZR's are an awesome platflorm, speed and rough water handling...Seadoo...my personal favorite...also performs well in the rough.
All these can be modified....speed and handling. How much you spend is directly proportional to how fast you wanna get to where you wanna go.
A stealership's a stealership....I don't care what they sell. Business is business....but....the tech's now...they could push me in one direction or another.
To each his own. Been riding for a few years now...not flat water runnin either...well it's a rarity....still. The big Kawis out perform just about everything in rough water....the new yami's ZR's are an awesome platflorm, speed and rough water handling...Seadoo...my personal favorite...also performs well in the rough.
All these can be modified....speed and handling. How much you spend is directly proportional to how fast you wanna get to where you wanna go.
Last edited by a moderator:
BMANN06
Well-Known Member
:agree: These kinds of discussions and advice posts keep this site from becoming a "Shop Manual Dispensing Site" ...
djredman99
New Member
Nobody said you can't have an opinion, Lou. I just prefer it is based on fact, which is why I asked. BMANN is right, I like these types of discussions on here as opposed to telling someone for the nth time how to winterize there ski.
You are basing your opinions on skis that are 7-8 years old, though, and I think you should qualify your opinion with that information at the same time.
Back to the OP's question, I will add that I love having both a 2-stroke and a new 4-stroke. There are things that I can do on my 2-stroke that I cannot do on the 4-stroke and vice versa. The 2-stroke is a much wetter ride (if you want it to be), you can jump wakes, do 360's...you can really whip the thing around. The 4-stroke is awesome due it its speed, turning ability, and acceleration. I often enjoy making a race course on water and compete against my best time. Also, if I am cruising a large distance, no doubt I want the 4-stroke.
You are basing your opinions on skis that are 7-8 years old, though, and I think you should qualify your opinion with that information at the same time.
Back to the OP's question, I will add that I love having both a 2-stroke and a new 4-stroke. There are things that I can do on my 2-stroke that I cannot do on the 4-stroke and vice versa. The 2-stroke is a much wetter ride (if you want it to be), you can jump wakes, do 360's...you can really whip the thing around. The 4-stroke is awesome due it its speed, turning ability, and acceleration. I often enjoy making a race course on water and compete against my best time. Also, if I am cruising a large distance, no doubt I want the 4-stroke.
I did consider it a fair comparison, both ski's were the same age range and comparable models. I will admit that I rode a new Kawasaki, it was the base model, the STX. Anyway it looks to me like the SeaDoo's have gotten larger with more options, something that I'm not really interested. And as I said before I can't see buying one from the current dealer, SeaDoo changes dealers every few years so things could change.
I've never been brand conscious but I know what I like. If everybody liked SeaDoo's I guess they wouldn't bother to make Kawasaki's and Yamaha's. I don't like Yamaha's for the same reasons that I don't care for the 4-tek SeaDoo's, too big too boat like.
Also I'm not going to spend that much money on a ski and then have to take it back to the dealer to have what I consider routine maintenance.
Lou
I've never been brand conscious but I know what I like. If everybody liked SeaDoo's I guess they wouldn't bother to make Kawasaki's and Yamaha's. I don't like Yamaha's for the same reasons that I don't care for the 4-tek SeaDoo's, too big too boat like.
Also I'm not going to spend that much money on a ski and then have to take it back to the dealer to have what I consider routine maintenance.
Lou
BMANN06
Well-Known Member
Yah I hear yah there ... Kinda going off subject here but but i'm pissed off and comment Lou made got me rollin' :rant: What the HELL is BRP doing with their dealer network??? Someone in their head office needs a serious slap!! There are two dealers reasonable local to me that have had BRP come in and yank their dealership. One of which Dunfords of Havelock, who stocks (well stocked) so many 2 stroke parts and 4 stroke parts it isn't even funny. Seriously, you could phone them on a saturday afternoon and need some oddball 2 stroke part that no dealer would ever consider stocking .. yep he's got one on the shelf and guess what he'd keep the shop open till you got there. Not too mention he's is like right in the heart of snowmobile country ... but anyways i'll keep it to the watercraft. The other very local to me has been yanked too ... and they had really good techs aswell. So now my only option is to go to the new dealer (who in all honesty doesn't give a shit about $10K-$20K toys ... and would rather sell $200K+ boats) and just order parts ... :toetap05: Anyways ... I know that may not have been necessary I've had a few pints and felt like sharing my opinion on the practices of BRP.
I know exactly what you are saying. This is no small market here, we have lots of lakes in Kentucky. The dealers that BRP has had here are more interested in selling than service. I work at a Cadillac, Volvo, Subaru auto dealership, and I know especially in hard economic times service is what carries the dealership. No matter what you are selling, you're selling service.
The SeaDoo dealership here is really just a sideline, the dealer here sells mostly motorcycles, atv's, SeaDoo's are a sideline, they don't even have one in stock. Very limited or no parts, I have had to order what I consider common parts, ie an "O" ring for the pump cone, 8.00 plus 10.00 shipping (ordered it on line instead). They may know motorcycles but don't know boats or PWC's.
Fortunately I own 2-stroke SeaDoo's and can work on them myself and get parts elsewhere. Thanks for listening to my rant.
:rant:
Lou
The SeaDoo dealership here is really just a sideline, the dealer here sells mostly motorcycles, atv's, SeaDoo's are a sideline, they don't even have one in stock. Very limited or no parts, I have had to order what I consider common parts, ie an "O" ring for the pump cone, 8.00 plus 10.00 shipping (ordered it on line instead). They may know motorcycles but don't know boats or PWC's.
Fortunately I own 2-stroke SeaDoo's and can work on them myself and get parts elsewhere. Thanks for listening to my rant.
:rant:
Lou
djredman99
New Member
It is definitely a fair comparison as the ski's were just one model year apart and both in the same class - the base models.
red2blue
New Member
Yeah...but that's like comparing a Ford's performance and handling to a Chevy's...when your looking at a Fiesta and a Chevette!
You wanna be looking at a Mustang to a 'Vette....both machines touted for there performance and handling...not the grocery getters.
Sorry...i'll sit back in my corner.
You wanna be looking at a Mustang to a 'Vette....both machines touted for there performance and handling...not the grocery getters.
Sorry...i'll sit back in my corner.
djredman99
New Member
Why do think the only comparison can be made between the high performance machines, red2blue? What if you were shopping for a Fiesta and a Chevette? Then who cares about how a Mustang compares to a Vette.
So, by your logic, the Ford F150 truck is a pile of crap because the Vette will smoke it. That is not exactly fair, nor relevant to the F150, is it?
The only problem I had with Lou's opinion is when he first stated it, it was too general and made it sound like all Kawis were better than all Seadoos. But now that we got some specifics, he validated his opinion, and Lou thinks that if you are looking for a base model 2004-2005 4-stroke, then you should give Kawasaki a chance because he enjoyed the ride more than the seadoo.
So, by your logic, the Ford F150 truck is a pile of crap because the Vette will smoke it. That is not exactly fair, nor relevant to the F150, is it?
The only problem I had with Lou's opinion is when he first stated it, it was too general and made it sound like all Kawis were better than all Seadoos. But now that we got some specifics, he validated his opinion, and Lou thinks that if you are looking for a base model 2004-2005 4-stroke, then you should give Kawasaki a chance because he enjoyed the ride more than the seadoo.
- Status
