2013 seadoo gtx limited won't start

[Nieo]

Hi, I recently finished replacing the timing chain on my 2013 seadoo gtx limited. After putting everything back together, it will crank but won't kick.
It has spark, compression, fuel, and I rechecked the timing twice already. I hooked up BUDS and it doesn't show any codes, and all the monitoring data looks normal. Am I missing something obvious? open to trying any ideas at this point.

 

[ski-d00]

How exactly did you set the timing for the timing chain?

 

[Nieo]

I used the seadoo timing tools to lock down the crankshaft and camshaft, then installed the camshaft gear with the timing marks even with the top of the head.

 

[ski-d00]

Are you sure you had the crank locking tool in the hole in the crank? You have to look through the hole with a flashlight to make sure the hole is in the correct location. Did you have the engine completely apart? Did you change any other parts besides the timing chain? Were the CB mark and the crank mark in perfect alignment when you assembled?

 

[Nieo]

I had the engine completely apart, changed all the gaskets and timing chain, but nothing else. CB and crank mark were aligned, and I did check with a flashlight to make sure I was lined up with the hole for the crankshaft tool before locking it down.

 

[ski-d00]

The timing marks on the cam gear are never perfectly aligned with the head. Did you tighten the timing chain tensioner before you tightened the 3 bolts on the cam gear?
What are your compression numbers?
Take the fuel rail off and confirm you are getting good mist patterns out of the fuel injectors while cranking.
If you have fuel, check spark on spark plugs while cranking.
It should at least be intermittently popping if you have fuel, spark, and compression. You have no fire at all?

 

[Nieo]

update, I made sure the cam gear markings were aligned with the head after the tensioner was installed, even retimed it again just to make sure.
compression is all 130-135psi, I took the injectors out and the mist pattern looks great, checked spark plugs while cranking and they look good, got new plugs just incase and rechecked; spark still looked good.

it does intermittently pop, but never kicks hard enough to disengage the starter. is it possible that the sensor that controls spark timing is acting up? every time I pull out the plugs they have fuel on them and are completely clean. it also seems like when it does kick it might be firing early and slowing the starting rpm down.


I also get a weird check engine light for half a second as soon as I hit the starter button, but the code doesn't stay and it doesn't show up in BUDS.

 

[ski-d00]

I made sure the cam gear markings were aligned with the head after the tensioner was installed

The cam gear markings won't align with the head. They are always off a little. You have to install the crank locking tool, install the cam locking tool, tighten the timing chain tensioner making sure the chain is very tight on the pull side of the crank shaft, then tighten the 3 cam gear bolts.
Your compression is a little low but it still should run fine. Are you sure you have good fuel? I had one with water in the fuel tank that would only pop that took me a little while to figure out after a rebuild. You can disconnect the fuel line quickly at the fuel rail and put key on to start fuel pump and put gas in a glass jar to see it to make sure it isn't cloudy.
Is your battery new and very strong?
As far as spark timing, if you had a cps not working right, you would get a code. You can disconnect it and crank to see the code it throws. You can also check resistance of it and it should be around 970 ohms.

 

[Nieo]

no water in the fuel, I also replaced it incase it was old. no luck
cps ohms check out
swapped battery with one that I know is good from another ski I have and still no luck.
it did seem like it was turning over pretty slow though after I swapped batteries.

im going to get a second set of eyes and check timing again, any other ideas in the meantime?

 

[ski-d00]

Was it ever jump started? Cluster and all electronics working fine? Do you have your tops sensor plugged in properly and snapped in place?

 

[Nieo]

Never jumped, all electronics work fine, and tops sensor is good and connector snapped in

 

[ski-d00]

Have you grounded the spark plug on top of the valve cover and watched it spark while cranking? What does the spark look like?

 

[Nieo]

yes I have, spark looks great on all plugs

 

[ski-d00]

Are you sure you put the encoder wheel on properly? Did it have 2 small holes in it? Do you have any pics of this when you were putting back together? This is what determines the timing of the spark? You didn't replace any other parts besides timing chain and gaskets?
If you put a little gas in each cylinder, and crank it what does it do? This is to test electrical timing and rule out fuel problems. It should run for a second and then die if your electrically timing is correct. If it weakly pops or backfires, the spark is not on correct time.

At this point, I think the electrical timing is off. If you have good spark, good fuel, and compression, the only reason it won't run is because of spark timing. I think you have the mechanical timing correct since you have good compression on all cylinders.

 

[Nieo]

added fuel directly to cylinders and got nothing but weak pops, going to open up the pto housing and take a look at the encoder this weekend. I have a feeling its going to be the problem.

 

[Nieo]

Ok I opened up the pto and the coder was timed wrong, set it correctly put it back together, and now I get a no signal error on the crank position sensor. Guessing the coder is off somehow? Or is it a bad sensor? Ohms on the sensor checks out but the voltage from it doesn’t when cranking, only gets 1v instead of 2.3v

 

[ski-d00]

There's really one way to put the encoder wheel on if there's only 1 alignment hole in it. If it has 2, it's been modified and probably from an older seadoo. Did you use new stretch bolts on the encoder? How exactly was the wheel off? Do you have any pics?

 

[Nieo]

the pin that goes in the alignment hole doesn't protrude much so I was able to incorrectly install it. Yes I used new stretch bolts


I opened up the pto again to see if anything was still off, and it still looks good to me (correct me if im wrong)

I just got in a new sensor, because the AC voltage from the old sensor was reading low when cranking, 1v instead of the specd 2.3v
the new sensor gives off 2.3 which is correct, but I'm still getting a p0335 (crank position sensor signal error) which is causing no spark
I've checked all my connections and grounds and the battery is good and was topped up when I was testing.

only things I can think of is the trigger wheel is bad, or is there a certain way to orient the magnet?
any ideas?

 

[ski-d00]

Can't tell much from your pic since I can't see the encoder gap and don't know the crank orientation. It looks like you have it right now if the encoder wheel only has 1 alignment hole.
When the encoder wheel and mag cup are misassembled, the stator can get rubbed and short it out since the encoder wheel is sitting on top of the alignment pin at an angle. Check your stator for resistance between all legs and resistance to ground.
The cps plug can get mixed up with another plug.

Trigger wheels don't go bad unless they get chewed up, they just have a gap that the cps senses when it spins. No special way to orient the cps, put it in the hole and put the bolt in.

 

[Nieo]

thanks, ill check stator resistances and double check plugs and report back in a few hours.

 

[Nieo]

ok I did the stator continuity test and the insulation test and it passed both, and I can't find anything else that would be able to plug into the cps besides the lead I'm using.

 

[ski-d00]

Disconnect your battery, check your cps resistance at the ECU, not just the connector. Should be 940ish ohms. Reconnect battery and press start, put key on and let it sit for a couple of minutes. Does that code come up before cranking? Then try to start. Any other codes or just that P0335? Does it crank fast at normal speed? Any beeps while cranking?

 

[Nieo]

cps resistance at the ECU connector was good, code only comes up after cranking, no beeps, and its cranking at a normal speed. I have a suspicion something is going on in the pto because everything I have tested related to the sensor has been good. (and it was sparking and not throwing the code when I previously had the trigger wheel installed wrong. I'm going to open it back up and take a look tonight.