2007 challenger 180 wants to start but ?

[Sofla]

I have had a 2007 seadoo 180 challenger jet boat indoors sitting for a spell while fiberglass repairs were made to damages from an unfortunate kiss with a pylon. Now ready to go again.... it cranks, new plugs, thoroughly cleaned injectors, drained, cleaned and filled tank with fresh gas.. new battery ?... fuel pump and gauge assembly replaced and new filters installed..
I cannot think what else or where else the problem may be.... even the fuses ... all good.!?

Not long before its storage period it was tuned up and running crisp... even after the bow damage it was running perfect... but now it cranks... no start... with starting fluid sprayed directly into injector cylinders and injectors remounted... it will catch and cough .. then back to just cranking... and cranking... getting voltage to the fuel pump fine...
How to eval the air intake system.... maybe? Its the final element as i have fuel and spark... ... anyone familiar with this problem or this boat?

Most grateful for any insights or suggestions..

-lauderdaler

 

[ski-d00]

You can't just change the gauge assembly. It has to be programmed for your year boat and then married to your ECU.

 

[Sofla]

Not replacing the gauge... where'd you get that from?

 

[Sofla]

Not gauge... fuel pump and float assembly i meant. Why would a gauge problem manifest as a not starting problem in any case?


Since have fixed the issue now facing the dread of inaccessable 22mm nut to remove for replacement, the steering cable.

Any insights on this matter anyone,

 

[ski-d00]

Not replacing the gauge... where'd you get that from?

.. fuel pump and gauge assembly replaced and new filters installed.

The gauge is an integral part to the entire electrical system. It won't run(but will crank) if the ECU can not communicate with the gauge. The only way flash/load the proper year data and then to marry the gauge to the ECU is to use BUDS or equivalent software.

 

[Sofla]

The gauge is an integral part to the entire electrical system. It won't run(but will crank) if the ECU can not communicate with the gauge. The only way flash/load the proper year data and then to marry the gauge to the ECU is to use BUDS or equivalent software.

Thank you for that insight, as i said i did not have to do anything with the gauge, apparently i should definitely be grateful for im hearing.

Given your obvious intelligence insofar as seadoo and their mechanics, i wonder of i may beg of you a question regarding a more pointed yet seemingly simpler problem.

See my other post if you wouldnt mind .Steering cable replacement

 

[ID62]

Hi Sofla,
It seems you don't get fuel. Why? Ignition seems to be working because it was running with the starting fluid. If you don't smell the fuel after so many times cranking, then there isn't any fuel. So you have to check if your fuel pump delivers the fuel. Perhaps the fuel pump isn't connected correctly and runs not in the correct direction. Easiest way, disconnect the fuel hose and hold the end into a glass, connect your Dess-key and you should see a small amount of fuel. If not, check your wiring. If you get fuel, then dismount the fuel-rail and place under each injector one glass. Crank the engine and see if all of them are working. Sometimes one of the injectors are clocked and then the Rotax don't want start. I had already issues with hard starting and I figured out after cleaning the injectors the Rotax starts like a hero again.

 

[Sofla]

Thank you..
Beg of you one more question.
Once running, one the trailer, there seems to be a rattle coming from in the impeller housing. Im not sure what its supposed to sound like outta the water soo not sure if there is another problem. However. While on trailer if i race the engine , at some point a sound occurs thatcan only be bad im thinking. Much like the sound of the impeller binding up ... its intermittent and at this point can seemigky becleared with a little throttle playing

Could this be a wear ring issue? Upon visual ispection i cannot see anything obviously out of place.

Any idea? Any

 

[JPass]

Thank you..
Beg of you one more question.
Once running, one the trailer, there seems to be a rattle coming from in the impeller housing. Im not sure what its supposed to sound like outta the water soo not sure if there is another problem. However. While on trailer if i race the engine , at some point a sound occurs thatcan only be bad im thinking. Much like the sound of the impeller binding up ... its intermittent and at this point can seemigky becleared with a little throttle playing

Could this be a wear ring issue? Upon visual ispection i cannot see anything obviously out of place.

Any idea? Any

Rattling while running on trailer is normal. You shouldn't be running it very long out of the water due to excessive wear on the carbon seal as it is normally cooled by the water the boat is sitting in.

 

[ID62]

The rattling outside the water happens due to the design of the Seadoo jet-pump. The impeller sits on his bearing and the drive-shaft is in between of the impeller and the engine. The drive-shaft has a spline on both ends and isn't fixed neither to the engine nor the impeller. Actually it's a kind of a "swimming" connecting. The splines on both ends have a little bit play and this generates the rattling noise at the impeller. Just tap with a screwdriver at your impeller and you will hear a familiar noise *smile*
Once you are in the water, the impeller isn't spinning freely because you have the load of the water on it. So the water and the load damp this rattling noise. If you hear it in the water, then you might have an issue with your bearing.
Yamaha design is slightly different. The drive-shaft has at the impeller side a thread and is fixed connected to the impeller. That's the reason why the Yamaha sounds little bit quieter when it's running outside the water.

 

[Sofla]

Soo many thanks for your advice and the details... incredibly helpful folks in here.
To jpass.... im sure to start the hose connection once its started... is that not sufficient to be able to run it on the trailer? I had always assumed on any of my boats that it was... please correct me if im wrong with that thinking.

Many many thanks to all.

 

[JPass]

To jpass.... im sure to start the hose connection once its started... is that not sufficient to be able to run it on the trailer? I had always assumed on any of my boats that it was... please correct me if im wrong with that thinking.

Many many thanks to all.

The BRP 4Tecs have closed loop cooling. This means the engine and oil cooler use antifreeze to cool them. You have either 1 or 2 heat exchangers under the boat (ride plate or rectangular plates on sides). The hot antifreeze goes through a heat exchanger under the boat, transferring the heat to the water.

Our boats use source or hose water to cool the exhaust. The only item not being cooled when running on the hose is the carbon seal. This seal is located inside the boat near the rear of the engine. It's where the driveshaft comes into the hull from outside. There's a black rubber bellows covering the components. If this seal fails, you could be in big trouble.

I believe the manual states it's OK to run the boat out of the water for up to 2 mins.

 

[Sofla]

Wow.... from your info i am not without concern as i ran it on the trailer hosed for longer than that after i got it running after your help with my initial starting issue.

In fact at one point i did rev the engines to see how itd be before taking to the water fir its relaunch after dry soo long... when i did apart from the rattle that you kindly explained... there came another perhaps more alarming sound.... the best way i could explain it is to say it came on much like a slipping belt would manifest its sound.: as you reved the motor.. this sound was not a whine or a high pitched squeal like a belt but more like a slippage or cavitation.. but it wasnt in the water. An adjustment to the throttle would stop the sound and it didnt seem to occur at the exact same rpm and only upon throttling up. I assume itd do the same thing if splashed too in this respect.

How can i test or check the integrity of that carbon seal?
Could a wear ring issue be the sound im hearing or other wearable component?

I checked for an obstruction at the impeller and the shaft underneath... all clear it seemed.

Any thoughts
Most grateful.
Steve

 

[JPass]

You can check the carbon seal by placing the boat in the water and running your hand around the bellows to see if you feel any water coming in. If it leaks when not under a load, then replace the seal immediately. If it's not leaking, then run the boat and check the seal while under a load.

The carbon ring is a serviceable item and fairly cheap to swap if you do it yourself.

Without being able to hear the sound, it's hard to say what's causing it. Generally wear ring issues usually involve cavitation or an obstruction. You've eliminated the obstruction part.

You could always pull the pump and give it a quick inspection. Remove the cone and check for water in the grease or rust on the outer bearing, etc.

 

[Sofla]

The bellows?
Thank you so much for all your attention...i feel ill be on the water in no time.

 

[JPass]

This is the bellows. Carbon seal is at the rear of the bellows (circled) under the rear hose clamp. The silver "cone" on the other end is the support ring.

 

[Sofla]

The bellows?
Thank you so much for all your attention...i feel ill be on the water in no time.

J-... i cant tell you how much I appreciate all the info you certainly sound very informed and ill bet equally capable with all this
Save asking you everytime i have a question or hear a hiccup what would you suggest is a quality useful reference for me to look for.. ? Ideally a manual service or shop with illustrations and info for a;
2006 honda aquatrax f12
2016 seadoo gtx limited iS260
2007 seadoo challenger 180 SE215

On a far chance ... a 2007 Surfango Powersurf fx jetboard too.

Whats the holy grail of reference for one or all these watercraft?

Any ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks a pile j.
What can i do to return the favors for you?

 

[Sofla]

Hello j.... a question please.. when in gear and accelaerate... i get a knock or banging as if im dragging an anchor on a six inch chain! I searched the intake grill and shaft for the obvious obstruction or tangle and saw nothing...
Where else could such a sound and feel eminate from?
Seems to idle along well enough. I noted that the bib for flushing is attached but i cant imagine the sound coming from this.
Btw.. should that hole be left open while in water..... does it draw from here in water as well as from hose?
Thank you

 

[JPass]

No idea where the banging noise could be coming from. Have you pulled your pump yet and inspected everything?

What have you checked/removed so far?