2006 GTX 155 Turns Over, CPS Error

[chamilton89]

Hello everyone! I am working on my neighbors 2004 GTX with the NA 4-tec. New battery, plugs, starter solenoid, and fuel. Was winterized but has not run in 4 years due to this issue. Oil is clean and I am getting fuel and compression is fine. Insert the key on the DESS post and get chirp chirp (key recognized), one longer chirp (unknown), and then standard 4 chirps (key still on post). Turns over on the button but I get no spark across any cylinder. Only real physical damage is that the LCD display is destroyed. Looks like years of water ingress through cracks in the plastic. No display of any kind.

Issue is no fire, strange (unknown) chirp, and only visible damage is the ruined LCD. My thoughts are as follows. Unknown chirp is trying to tell me there is a fault, possibly with the display which I am aware of obviously. No spark leads me to believe that the computer is intentionally not sparking because of the possible display issue? Would the computer intentionally not start because there is no communication with the display or could I be looking at something else? Any thoughts or testing would be appreciated. Next step is to take it to the dealer and have the codes read. Unless there is someone in central Ohio with a Can-doo Pro who wouldn't mind taking a look for me. I am hesitant to replace the VERY expensive LCD just to find our the MPEM is toast. I would like to get the engine running before I sink any more into the display!

 

[MacSeaDoo]

The long chirp is the chirp to tell you there is an error or code. 2002 to 2005 clusters were not married to the ECU so your machine should start and run even if the cluster was not even there from what I understand.

When you put the key on the post do you hear the fuel pump?

 

[chamilton89]

The long chirp is the chirp to tell you there is an error or code. 2002 to 2005 clusters were not married to the ECU so your machine should start and run even if the cluster was not even there from what I understand.

When you put the key on the post do you hear the fuel pump?

So whats happened there is I straight up lied. After you said they weren't married I took another look at the ski as I knew they were. Its a 2006 GTX, not a 2004. So I believe the clusters ARE married. Yes, I get a fuel pump and pressure and fuel injectors.

 

[MacSeaDoo]

It is tough without knowing the code. I do know if the cluster is not married to the ECU, you will not get a start. I don't know if 2006 and above will run without a response from the ECU if it has been married in the past. Either way, if you do get a new ECU you will need a dealer to program or Candoo.

 

[chamilton89]

It is tough without knowing the code. I do know if the cluster is not married to the ECU, you will not get a start. I don't know if 2006 and above will run without a response from the ECU if it has been married in the past. Either way, if you do get a new ECU you will need a dealer to program or Candoo.

Thanks. I think that really might be the issue. It was the original cluster and was obviously married in the past but will not be giving a signal back to the MPEM. Replacing the cluster and getting it reprogrammed is no big deal. If the cluster is the reason it’s not firing, I have no problem replacing it just don’t want to sink $500 in replacing a cluster that doesn’t get the engine running.

 

[Digdog]

Fixing the cluster could tell you the code and the problem, so would hooking it up to a Candoo which you should do first because that long beep is telling you there is a problem and save finding out you fixed the wrong item. Maybe fuses, but probably something like the crank sensor or some other sensor is faulty and causing it to not fire the plugs.

 

[chamilton89]

Fixing the cluster could tell you the code and the problem, so would hooking it up to a Candoo which you should do first because that long beep is telling you there is a problem and save finding out you fixed the wrong item. Maybe fuses, but probably something like the crank sensor or some other sensor is faulty and causing it to not fire the plugs.

Yup, a catch 22 for sure in regards to fixing the display. I’ll go ahead and take it to the dealer and see what the MPEM has to say.

Still curious if the display being dead can cause the computer not to spark. Seems reasonable given the fact they are married but I’m not sure.

 

[MacSeaDoo]

Either way, regardless of the issue, you kinda need a display.

I hope that solves your problem.

 

[chamilton89]

Okay, an update! Got a Candoo Pro and got a little more insight into what is going on. First, bunch of codes, the normal offenders with lake temp sensor etc. A bunch of communication errors and issues. Interesting. So I cleared everything and the only one that came back is the P1681" Communication problem - instrument cluster message missing", which of course I knew. My BIGGEST question now is that can that fault be the cause of the boat not starting? To me is makes perfect sense. If you are going to make that a deterrent to theft, and the MPEM cant talk to the cluster, of course it wouldn't just let you start it. Please, if anyone has any insight, I would love to hear it.

 

[chamilton89]

I have also working on the candoo forums as well and I think I have some more information to go on. From the admin there, the dead display should have no affect on running (spark) and that if I am still having issues, check the Cam Position Sensor (CPS). While cranking, RPM was displayed on the candoo very erratically, sometimes not showing at all. A quick test of the sensor also but it out of range on the resistance test measuring 925 ohms when normal is 190 ohms - 290 ohms. Last piece of this puzzle is cranking. During cranking, it starts and stops often, pauses and is not consistent while pushing the starter button. I initially chalked this up to a bad starter relay but after replacing it, it stayed the same. I believe this could also be another symptom of a bad CPS where the computer is getting confused on if the starter "should" be cranking because the RPM data it is getting is all over the place and above 1600rpm, the starter should NOT be cranking any longer.

Going to take one more resistance test to be sure it is outside of normal and then replace if necessary.

 

[chamilton89]

Replaced the CPS sensor today. I am getting a very strong consistent crank (where is was very hesitant before) but still no FUEL or SPARK. Went ahead and checked the fuel got nothing while cranking. My Candoo also shows no RPM while cranking. Starting to think I am having some kind of issue internally with the trigger or wheel. Again, I CAN manually trigger both the coil and injectors so I know the MPEM and ECM can communicate with them. Looking for further items to test before I have to pull the entire PTO side of the engine apart.

 

[ski-d00]

It will never start until you get communication with the cluster. To be clear, it will run with a dead LCD as long as the cluster itself is still working internally. The long beep you hear after the 2 chirps is the communication error with the cluster meaning it's not working. Replace your cluster, flash it,( which CanDoo won't do due to copyright issues with BRP software so you will need BUDS), then marry the cluster to the ECU and it will run. Make sure to follow the manual exactly to remove the cluster or you will break the plastic tabs.

If you bring it to me, I have a couple used clusters and can hook up to BUDS to flash and marry. I'm less than 2 hours from Columbus.

 

[chamilton89]

It will never start until you get communication with the cluster. To be clear, it will run with a dead LCD as long as the cluster itself is still working internally. The long beep you hear after the 2 chirps is the communication error with the cluster meaning it's not working. Replace your cluster, flash it,( which CanDoo won't do due to copyright issues with BRP software so you will need BUDS), then marry the cluster to the ECU and it will run. Make sure to follow the manual exactly to remove the cluster or you will break the plastic tabs.

If you bring it to me, I have a couple used clusters and can hook up to BUDS to flash and marry. I'm less than 2 hours from Columbus.

I very much appreciate the information and willingness to help! Sent you a PM to discuss further.

 

[chamilton89]

Ordering a brand new cluster and will report back hopefully with good news after it has been replaced.

 

[chamilton89]

Alright, update. Installed and married new cluster to the ski. Everything with the cluster works as normal with no issues. When cranking, immediate engine code P0337, CPS signal not detected. No RPM shown on cluster or candoo. We had already replaced the CPS sensor with a brand new OEM one. Getting .7 VAC during crank and a 900ohm resistance. The resistance is about the same as the original one but the manual states it should be between 190ohm and 290ohm. I think we are going to get yet another CPS sensor as both the resistance and voltage are not in spec and it seems we may have gotten a defective one out of the box.

 

[ski-d00]

Did you flash it first with MY2006 software?

Very unlikely you got a new defective cps out of the box especially since they very rarely fail.
2006 was a transition year for a lot of different critical systems, like Mpem delete, crank pin position change, Tops system, etc.

 

[chamilton89]

Yes, cluster was purchased from Candoo directly, they flashed it and I married it. Having no error codes with the gauge cluster.

Aside from just the CPS sensor being bad, there does seem to be a number of other issues that people think could cause this fault code. I've read, damaged timing chain, out of timing, Cam position sensor, and of course a damaged trigger wheel. Any additional thoughts as to what's next? Obviously trying to rule things out while being as minimally invasive as possible before I really start taking things apart.
From the previous owner, the ski went in for an oil change and didn't run after that. Not sure how reliable that information is but I thought I would throw it out here.

 

[ski-d00]

Are you sure it's an 06, last 2 digits of HIN? Does it have an mpem with the newer gauge? Is the CPS at 7 o'clock and not at 12 o'clock? Just trying to verify everything so we know exactly which system you have.

 

[chamilton89]

Are you sure it's an 06, last 2 digits of HIN? Does it have an mpem with the newer gauge? Is the CPS at 7 o'clock and not at 12 o'clock? Just trying to verify everything so we know exactly which system you have.

I’ll verify the HIN year. It does have both an mpem and ECM and CPS is located at 7-8 o’clock on the PTO housing.

 

[chamilton89]

Are you sure it's an 06, last 2 digits of HIN? Does it have an mpem with the newer gauge? Is the CPS at 7 o'clock and not at 12 o'clock? Just trying to verify everything so we know exactly which system you have.

HIN has also verified it’s an 06.

 

[chamilton89]

Going to do a few more things. Going to check oil filter for metal, pull the valve cover and take a look at the timing chain (may also check timing on the timing chain?) To assure proper timing, I assume the crank pully will be TDC with cylinder 1 and the camshaft pully will show the timing gear lines level with the cylinder head. Sounds simple enough to check but wanted to make sure that was correct. Also may pull the CPS again as well and check for metal and proper installation.

 

[chamilton89]

Alright, for those keeping score, I have some numbers to compare to. I just did both the resistance and VAC under cranking test with my 06 RXT CPS and here is what I got. same ~900ohm resistance. This tells me the part has been updated since the repair manual was written or its just plain wrong. More interesting I got 2.7 VAC during cranking, that's 2v more than what I am seeing on the damaged ski. At this point, I think its really only one of two things. Its either the second (brand new) CPS sensor is bad or installed incorrectly OR the trigger wheel in the PTO housing is damaged and not giving the CPS the correct data to be picked up. Going to order yet another CPS sensor and try this again...

 

[chamilton89]

An update for the one person watching this thread. Got my hands on the ski yesterday. Pulled the valve cover. Everything looks as clean as it should and the timing chain was taught and tensioner looked perfect. Also pulled the oil filter and it looked clean as well. Was trying to try another CPS (aftermarket) sensor but what was ordered was a three wire and I needed a two wire sensor. So wasn't able to test that today.

 

[chamilton89]

Three different CPS sensors have been tested (Original, OEM, and aftermarket) and both the OEM and aftermarket both showed between 2 and 3 VAC during cranking, more than enough to show the RPM's to the ECM. Wiring to the ECM was also checked with no issues. During cranking, no RPM is shown the majority of the time with blips of RPM shown. During these blips, the starter motor stops cranking as over 1600 RPM, it is supposed to do. Of course the ski still does not start and the starter motor starts cranking right again.

SO, all of this being said, I feel confidant that the CPS is no longer the issue and it has become very likely this is now an ECM issue. Everything else on the ECM seems to be working without issue. No error codes and I can fire both the spark plugs and injectors manually using the candoo. All the pins are clean and the ECM itself is in perfect physical condition. Still my issue seems to be that it cannot read the CPS sensor input correctly and cannot discern the rotation of the crank correctly.

Sadly, this tells me the ECM is busted. My question is, now what? From what I can tell, I have a few options. I can go used (crap shoot) for like 6-7 hundred dollars. I can send the ECM off to have it bench tested for ~$100 bucks (Westside Powersports?) or it looks like I can still get them brand new for about a grand. Looking for any and all thoughts on next steps. Is it worth having it tested? What is the likelihood it can be fixed/reprogrammed and saved? Does anyone have a ECM for a 2006 GTX that I could borrow to verify my ECM is busted and possibly buy? I don't really trust eBay sellers. Anyway, looking for guidance before I make a $1000 decision. Thanks.

 

[ski-d00]

Who flashed your cluster? Candoo can't do it and not sure I would trust a dealer to do it out of the machine. It really needs to be installed in the ski, flashed using BUDS only and then married to your ECU. What you are describing is exactly what it will do if it did not get flashed properly. They do not come flashed from BRP. I think it is unlikely that your ECU is bad unless somebody tried to jump start it from a running vehicle.