2004 Seadoo Sportster LE Jet Pump Seal question

[mkeough11]

I am rebuilding my Jet pump and have a question about which way the seal goes. There are 2 sides to the seal, hard side and the spring side. This is the seal that goes under the impeller and keeps the water out and the oil in. The shop manual shows the seal going in with the spring to the outside (water side) and the hard side on the oil side. There is even a picture showing it going that way. But the seal I am taking out has the hard side on the water side and the spring side to the oil side. I do not know if the pump has ever been rebuilt before and if someone installed it wrong or if the manual is wrong. Does anyone know which way the seal goes? Does the spring side face the water or the oil?

 

[Waterluvr]

If you look closely at the seal you'll see the hardside (outer/water side) has a seal lip and the inner (oil/spring side) has one also. ~Spring to the inside, run your finger over the seal edges after it's seated to make sure they are both still concentric and not folded or pinched.

 

[mkeough11]

If you look closely at the seal you'll see the hardside (outer/water side) has a seal lip and the inner (oil/spring side) has one also. ~Spring to the inside, run your finger over the seal edges after it's seated to make sure they are both still concentric and not folded or pinched.

So you are saying the spring side of the seal goes to the oil side and the hard side goes to the water side. That is how the old seal is installed at this time. But please help me understand the shop manual. I have uploaded a pic of what it says and it says to install the seal with the spring to the outside. This does not make since to me. Is the manual wrong? The pic even shows the seal going on the tool so the spring will be to the outside.

 

[LouDoo]

The manual is rarely wrong, but in this case it is. I agree with Waterluvr the spring goes toward the inside of the pump, I have rebuilt several pumps and I have always installed them this way.

Lou

 

[mkeough11]

The manual is rarely wrong, but in this case it is. I agree with Waterluvr the spring goes toward the inside of the pump, I have rebuilt several pumps and I have always installed them this way.

Lou

I agree also. But when I saw what it said in the manual, I was completely confused. Even the exploded view of the pump shows the hard side on the oil side. I sure don't want to burn up a new rebuilt pump, so I am turning to the experts. You guys have built way more pumps than I have.

 

[Waterluvr]

If you look again, you will see the written directions are correct ("install seal with the spring toward the outside" meaning the seating end of the tool) it's the pictorial diagram that got it wrong.

 

[jhjesse]

JMHO
If the spring side goes inward towards the needle bearing, then the seal lip would interfere with the bearing not allowing the 1.5/2.5mm clearance required. I have rebuilt nearly every pump on all my current and past skis including both pumps on my Challenger 1800. All of them coming apart was set up spring side towards the impeller and hard side towards the needle bearing. That is also the way I reinstalled them having the hard side come against the machined "shoulder" allowing the required clearance. All my pumps past and present hold 15 to 20 psi pressure for at least an hour. I've never had a problem...hopefully I won't if that is wrong.

 

[mkeough11]

If you look again, you will see the written directions are correct ("install seal with the spring toward the outside" meaning the seating end of the tool) it's the pictorial diagram that got it wrong.

The problem I have with that is the word 'install'. Install means installing it. The correct word for what you are saying is to 'place' seal on tool. Now we have someone that (jhjesse) has done just what the manual says. So we have 2 different opinions. So what way is the correct way??

 

[LouDoo]

This is all very interesting, and to tell the truth I have not, until now looked at the manual. I guess the first one I did was on my 96GTI, which was the first time the double lip seal was changed and the original one (installed at the factory) had the flat side out, the side with the spring was facing the inside of the pump. Since then I have always installed them with the flat side out. Also it seems to me that if the spring side was out that eventually the spring that provides pressure would corrode or rust and fail.

I did look at my 96 shop manual and it's just like yours which shows the spring side toward the outside, the water side. So at this point I think we should get the opinions of some of the experts on this forum, please excuse me if I left anyone out. [MENTION=57920]racerxxx[/MENTION] [MENTION=51350]Jetskigoodies[/MENTION] [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] @purplepeopleeater

 

[Waterluvr]

The problem I have with that is the word 'install'. Install means installing it. The correct word for what you are saying is to 'place' seal on tool. Now we have someone that (jhjesse) has done just what the manual says. So we have 2 different opinions. So what way is the correct way??

The tool flange has to rest on the flat portion of the seal to seat it properly, does that make a little more sense? When the inner seal lip radius expands from heat and pressure in the gear housing the spring is there to maintain seal tension on the shaft.

 

[racerxxx]

When you assemble a carrier bearing the seal that is towards the water has the spring out. Or SHOULD have the spring out. Why? So when you pump it with grease its easier for the seal pressure to allow the grease outward and not actually push the metal seal out. Also I would assume that is why seadoo had the pump seal the same way. The spring side of the seal has more retention, so water pressing against will be harder to let in. I hope that kinda makes sense. That being said, the pumps I have out right now are all 96, the 99 big hub pump I have is currently on my 95 holding things together. It's buried deep and I can't get to it I'm trying to find a pic of it that I have, somewhere.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Every pump Ive ever seen has the spring towards the bearings like waterluvr described.

 

[racerxxx]

Yeah, forgot to put that in there, all my pumps have the spring in.


But here is a pic of the seal installed with the spring out

If you follow the ebay link you can get a larger pic
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SeaDoo-IMPE...-39-/251814083210?hash=item3aa149fa8a&vxp=mtr

 

[mkeough11]

Yeah, forgot to put that in there, all my pumps have the spring in.


But here is a pic of the seal installed with the spring out

If you follow the ebay link you can get a larger pic
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SeaDoo-IMPE...-39-/251814083210?hash=item3aa149fa8a&vxp=mtr

OK, it has been done both ways. But what is the best way? As of right now I am leaning toward putting the spring to the oil side. Just because I think I want the spring being lubricated by oil vs. by water. Any one else have a thought about which way to install it?

 

[racerxxx]

OK, it has been done both ways. But what is the best way? As of right now I am leaning toward putting the spring to the oil side. Just because I think I want the spring being lubricated by oil vs. by water. Any one else have a thought about which way to install it?

The way it came out is the way I would do it, and if the manual say to do it that way then........

You can't really compare the earlier 140 pumps to your later 155 pump even though it the same "kind" of pump.

Maybe it has to do with where the shaft ends and the lip of the seal would ride. There is end play in the 140 pumps (not sure if there is in the 155's) but IF the seal were to unseat from the shaft it would let water in, but possibly by flipping the seal and moving the lip towards the rear of the pump it is still in tolerance of the shaft movement. This is just SPECULATION. You need to look at that.

 

[mkeough11]

The way it came out is the way I would do it, and if the manual say to do it that way then........

You can't really compare the earlier 140 pumps to your later 155 pump even though it the same "kind" of pump.

Maybe it has to do with where the shaft ends and the lip of the seal would ride. There is end play in the 140 pumps (not sure if there is in the 155's) but IF the seal were to unseat from the shaft it would let water in, but possibly by flipping the seal and moving the lip towards the rear of the pump it is still in tolerance of the shaft movement. This is just SPECULATION. You need to look at that.

Well that is the problem. The way it is installed now, is opposite of the way the manual says, if you take the manual literally. That is what started this conversation. I don't think the pump has been rebuilt before, the boat only had 90 hrs on it when I bought it. The seal is installed with the ring to the oil side. But the manual said to install the seal with the spring to the outside. It has been pointed out that maybe the manual meant to install the seal on the tool with the spring to the outside, so when the seal is installed, the spring will then be in the inside. I don't know. But I guess I am going to install the seal with the spring towards the bearing. It just seems to make more since to install it that way. I was hoping this had been researched before and someone would defiantly say how it should be done and everyone would agree.

 

[mkeough11]

Ok, update. I replaced the bearings and seal. The old seal seams to be a better seal than what I replaced it with. The one that came out is heavier and thicker and what I would call, a sealed seal. Both sides are metal, no open spring side. The one I put in (OSD) is about a mm thinner and has the open side. Not sure about the ramifications of this. But used it anyway. Now for the pressure test.

 

[racerxxx]

Now knowing that you got it from OSD, you should have called and asked them. When I bought my carrier stuff from them I spoke with them and they told me specifically which way they wanted the seal. Ugh, details that would have great to know in the first post, oh well. Those guys are great at OSD and have great customer service.

 

[mkeough11]

OK, it is all put back together. New bearings, seal, thrust washer & bearing. Seal spring to the oil side. It was still holding 12 psi after 1 hour and no bubbles when under water in bucket. Using synthetic 75-90 oil. Will let it sit overnight and finish filling it in the morning. Also installing new carbon ring kit (OSD) and cleaned and painted the drive shaft.