2003 Utopia or 2008 Challenger

[Macker29]

Newbie here, but not to boating. I am strongly considering either a 2003 Utopia 185 w/ Mercury V6 Optimax 200hp and a 2008 Challenger 4-tec 215hp.

2003 Utopia - dealing directly with owner. Owner is the 3rd owner and they have barely used the boat as did the previous owner. 1st owner ran it 80% of its hours (which are not metered on this boat to my knowledge). I saw the boat in person...looks really nice and the interior and engine are clean in appearance.

2008 Challenger - working with a dealer. Dealer has been honest and I have also seen this boat live. Said there are 150 hours on it and the supercharger has been recently rebuilt with brand new upholstery.

I have not test-drove either boat yet due to time constraints. Plan to do that later this week. Boat will be used for occasional tubing, skiing, wake-boarding and some evening cruises.

Just wondering what everyone's opinion of these boats are in general assuming both are running well. Is one better for maintenance? performance? etc.. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Dr Honda]

I like the modern engines... but the early superchargers are time bombs if not maintained. Also... they say it's been rebuilt... but when? If it was rebuilt years ago, but not used much since... then it can still have the ceramic washers. SO... unless they can say, with 100% certainty, that it has tool steel clutch washers... I would assume that it needs done again. Also... a 10 year old boat, and it already got a new interior.... That's a huge red flag to me. That tells me that it was used and abused. SO... unless it's a smoking good deal... I would walk away from the 2008 boat.


The 2003 boat has the typical 2-stroke issues. Loud and smoky.... although... the Opti engine is the best out of all of the Sportjets for smoke. Oh... and it does have an hour meter. It's built into the computer, and any Merc dealer should be able to read it out.


As you already know... unless you are buying a boat for a project, at "Scrap" pricing... then a water trial is mandatory. Although... it's getting to that time of the year, where it's not as easy because of weather. (unless you are very south)

Good luck, let us know what you do.

 

[dblackstone]

Ditto on the 10 yr old boat with New Interior. Used and abused or just not cared for over the years, easy to cover your boat to keep it out of the sun and rain.

 

[Macker29]

Thank you everyone. I agree that the new upholstery after only 10 years is a red flag on the 2008. I guess 150 hours is not unusual for a 10 year old boat, but I am wondering about the previous owners treatment of the boat. I will ask the dealer about that and see what type of answer I get from him. The rebuild was recent (meaning this summer). Also, I forgot to mention that the gauge cluster needs to be replaced (not cheap). All of these issues makes me believe the boat was stored outdoors without a cover. I have them talked down to $8,600 (were asking $9,200) but haven't moved on it yet.

2003 Utopia has very nice original interior. It has some wear for the age, but nothing major or concerning. Thank you for the info on the hours. I am definitely going to get that checked out. I have the owner considering $6,200 for this boat (was asking $7,000).

Will test drive next week.. better weather (live in Ohio).

 

[Dr Honda]

OK... Keep us posted, and good luck.

 

[seadoosnipe]

I like the modern engines... but the early superchargers are time bombs if not maintained. Also... they say it's been rebuilt... but when? If it was rebuilt years ago, but not used much since... then it can still have the ceramic washers. SO... unless they can say, with 100% certainty, that it has tool steel clutch washers... I would assume that it needs done again. Also... a 10 year old boat, and it already got a new interior.... That's a huge red flag to me. That tells me that it was used and abused. SO... unless it's a smoking good deal... I would walk away from the 2008 boat.


The 2003 boat has the typical 2-stroke issues. Loud and smoky.... although... the Opti engine is the best out of all of the Sportjets for smoke. Oh... and it does have an hour meter. It's built into the computer, and any Merc dealer should be able to read it out.


As you already know... unless you are buying a boat for a project, at "Scrap" pricing... then a water trial is mandatory. Although... it's getting to that time of the year, where it's not as easy because of weather. (unless you are very south)

Good luck, let us know what you do.

What look who in the hell I ran into!... Damn, I would never think you were still working your ass off! Looks like you changed your avatar since the last time I saw it. Hopefully, with the girls heading off to college, I'll be floating in a bit more. Great to see you again! Keep the help coming!

 

[Macker29]

quick question: how do these boats handle on inland lakes (5-50 ft depth) with weed beds in the more shallow areas. We typically run our boat on lakes in southern Michigan and NE Indiana. Of course I try not to run through weed beds. My current I/O will occasionally need weeds reverses off the prop, but nothing major or frequent. Just wanted to make sure sucking up weeds is not a major issue with these boats.

 

[Dr Honda]

Weeds are a mixed bag.

If they are still anchored to the bottom, and growing healthy... then they are zero issue. There's nothing hanging down to chop them off.

Now... if they are dying... and you suck them up........ MOST of the time, you will suck them into the pump, slice them up and spit them out. Every once in a while... they can plug the intake. When that happens... then you can't draw water into the pump, and you don't go anywhere.

Most guys who live on lakes with a lot of vegetation... they will build a rake that can reach under, and clean the grates off. SOME of the seasdoo boats have a weed grate that can be activated by a handle. (Pushed down and cleared) The Merc boat may have the "Hydrosurge" gate, and it allows the weeds to pass,

No boat is immune to weeds, and sometimes you just have to deal with them.

 

[Macker29]

Great information Dr. Honda.. I appreciate it! I plan to run the boat this week... most likely focusing on the 2003 utopia...just seems like the nicer boat of the two options based on care, etc... I'll give you an update as soon as I run it this week.

 

[Macker29]

Well, i test drove the 2003 Utopia earlier in the week. Nice boat and ran very well. The only thing that bothered me was the engine was a little loud and just a little high pitched. It was a little bit of a turn-off. So I told the guy I would think about it. So I may be back to the drawing board.

Now looking at a 2010 Challenger 180 SE...brand new engine (4 hours) and the boat itself on has 100 hours on it. The interior is in great shape as is the exterior of the boat.

Also, considering a 2012 Yamaha 190 SX with 150 hours that is in fantastic shape (sorry to bring up a Yamaha on this forum). A bit more expensive but is in fantastic condition.

 

[Dr Honda]

This is a Seadoo board... so... YOU ARE BANNED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL.

Sorry... but I thought it was funny. We talk about everything here, so no worries. (heck, look at my name... HONDA) Anyway, I was personally a fan of Yamaha for a lot of years... but around 2006... they started doing some $hitty stuff, and really turned me off. Some was PWC and some was motorcycle. On the PWC side... they really pushed the TC-w3 oils because they are (supposedly) better for the environment. The issue was... any of the Yamaha 2-strokes larger than the 760 needed better oil. But what came out was... on TC-w3, the engine would last past the warranty. (Just made the bean counters happy)

Since we aren't talking 2-stroke with the 190... it's irrelevant.

The Yamaha 4-stroke Marine engines are great. And I really like the cleanout systems they put in. (remove a plug and reach in) I would give that one a close look.

The 180 SE worries me. 100hr's on the hull, and needed a new engine? I would probably stay away from that... UNLESS... it's a smok'in good price. But I would want to know who re-built the engine. Over the years, I've seen a bunch of half-@ss'ed rebuild just to get it running again.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Well, i'm back ......LOL....tony... Dr. honda know this boat like back of his hand.....Trust him with his advice.

 

[Macker29]

Well, believe it or not, I decided to purchase the 2010 Seadoo Challenger 180 with the newly installed engine. The owner provided all of the paperwork and receipts for the brand new engine that was ordered directly from Sea-doo and professionally installed by a Sea-doo dealer. Owner gave me the name of the shop and the mechanic who installed. Did some checking on the shop and mechanic and both are highly recommended. The owner gave me the rundown of what happened to the original engine... all of which made sense and seemed to be genuine (sucked up a rock in a shallow area of a river mouth that caused several major problems). Owner said he regretted even attempting to go into that river and paid the price. Insurance paid for most of the new engine. New engine has a total of 6 hours on it now so it is broke in. Boat ran great during the very brief water test today... man was it cold!!! My thoughts were that the engine sounded much better than the Utopia...not nearly as high pitched or whiney. The previous owner of the Challenger was very helpful and honest. We spent close to 2.5 hours with him and the boat before we decided to purchase. He had already purchased a new larger boat while waiting for the new engine to be installed on the Challenger.

As for the Yamaha... that owner actually tried to pull a fast one on me... The day I was going to drive down and see the boat he raised the price $2000 out of nowhere. Needless to say I decided to walk away from that one.

Now a proud owner of a Seadoo Boat!!!

 

[Dr Honda]

Raised the price !!!! What an a$$-hole. If I made the drive, and that happened... I would have probably done something to get me arrested. LOL. The boat in my avatar (my current boat) I bought sigh-unseen, but it was a project with a blown engine. It was a 10 Hr drive (each way) to get it. I did that in 2011 as I recall. The guy who chimed in above (Seadoo buddy) actually was about half way, and let me crash at his house on the way back. Nice to know there are some nice people out there still.


Anyway... congrats on the new boat, and it sounds like it had a good story to make it the right thing to do. BUT.....................


POST SOME PICS !!!!!!!!!!!!