2003 Seadoo Challenger Help!

[angiegood]

Hi I have a 2003 Seadoo Challenger 2000, we bought it used with really low hours. The person I bought it from took it in trade for a car, according to him the first owner used it very little and the person I bought it from used it once and stored it for a year. From all accounts the boat is in very very good condition and does show very little usage/wear. According to the person we bought it from he had it recently serviced and said it was ready to use.

We used the boat alot!, after about a month or so the boat started cutting out, it first started happening really rarely and it was only at top speed, over time it got more and more frequent to the point where it will cut out every few minutes. You can get it re-started really quickly, and sometimes it cuts out and turns itself back on. We have had it serviced and they were unable to find anything wrong, I had all the typical stuff done. (spark plugs, fuel filter, changed the gas, battery). They checked the electrical system and the fuel system and according to the serviceman all was okay. (You'll have to forgive me for my lack of knowledge.) I think he said the fuel pressure was around 10 and it should be 14, but replacing the fuel filter fixed that. I checked all the wires to the key, battery, ignition, all seem to be fine and look really clean. Any help would be great. I have paid a fortune in service fees, and I can't seem to get this fixed. I live in the San Diego area and can't find many people who service these boats, the people I have been using don't seemto be able to track it down, so hopefully someone has some experience to point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance

Angie

 

[seadoosnipe]

Sorry......

Sorry your post got by me. I just noticed there have been no response. What Mercury M-2 engine do you have? The naturally aspirated 210 or the injected 240 hp?
It sounds like, because it's losing power, either momentarily or shut down then quick restart, your probably going to be chasing a loose wire gremlin type short.
The first thing I would do, is look at all the connections, especially ground wires to block and from battery, then any and every plug connection, starting with your ignition system. In unplugging these connectors, look inside them for signs of green or white corrosion. Have on hand a good CRC type electrical spray cleaner. After cleaning really well, use a small amout of die electric grease to apply to your connectors. This will water proof and stop corrosion build up. The 12 volt systems are notorious for that. Good example is to look at the powdery stuff that builds up around the cable ends. That's just inherit of a DC type electrical system.
The fuel pressure system is probably o.k., only reason is because, if when your problem happens, if it were fuel related, you'd probably get some type of spitting or sputtering before going dead.
Re-post any and all additional info if you'd like more help. Please, if you don't get a response in 24 hours, do a follow up re-post. Sometimes it gets busy and post do slip through the cracks............:cheers:

 

[angiegood]

Thanks for the response, I wanted to repost but was trying not to look like a stalker. After reading some other posts I realized I hadn't provided enough information. The motor is a 240 h.p.. When I got it serviced they felt like it was a fuel problem, but after reading so many things regarding the same types of problems I have also felt like it is a good possibility it would be electrical.

Up until we got it serviced you couldn't hear any kind of bogging or sputtering. The service man told us he was going to put some additive in the fuel and we should run it real slow for an hour, then full throttle, then change the fuel filter. No help. I have my doubts the additive was ever put in though. After we got the boat back and it didn't help I checked our reciept and it didn't have any charges for additive, nor was there an extra filter, so I'm thinking they may have forgotten. During that trip we also could hear sputtering, like it's not getting fuel. We even tried to run it with the back open so we could hear it better, but the motor is so loud that didn't really work out. After driving it around we checked the fuel filter that had just been put in it and it still looked brand new, and you could blow through it with no problem.

I have no problem taking it to a mechanic, I just can't find any, they all say they stoppped working on that motor. I am hesitant to take it back to the same guy because basically it's just shoot and miss which I can do to a certain extent. I don't feel like he is ripping me off or anything, I understand and they have been honest that they aren't sure what's going on. The last time we had it in we paid $600.00 for them to say it might work, but then it might not and unfortunantly it did not.

If you could please humor me.

My concerns are the guy we bought it from might not have had it serviced and we ran gas that had been in there for a year or possibly more. The only thing with that is we had used multiple tanks of fuel before the problem started, although I'm not sure it had ever gotten to the point where it was empty or even low enough to pull stuff off of the bottom.

I will definantly try your current suggestions. I couldn't remember about the sputtering until yesterday, and the wires look so new it leads me to believe it is something with the fuel.

Thanks so much again.

Angie

 

[seadoosnipe]

Welcome Angie....

I guess a "welcome to the forum" would be in order, sorry to have let your post slip past me. When the activity in the forum picks up, it's easy for that to happen. I try to catch them all but ......
If you ever make a post that goes unanswered for 24 hours or longer, please, re-post....it may have been over looked.
I've gotten the response "they don't work on these motors anymore" from a couple people. What shop did you take it to? SeaDoo or Mercury? Are you or a friend that will be helping you, mechanically inclined to do some testing? After you bring up the sputtering, then it is very well possible it could be a fuel problem. I'd say we could start by doing some pressure testing. Whether the mechanic added anything to your fuel or not, shouldn't matter. Years ago, when fuel injection first came out, 90% of the population still used the naturally aspirated carbs, fuel was "regular" and "premium". So owners of fuel injected automobiles bought an additive to clean the injectors.
In todays motors, almost 100% are now fuel injected. Most suppliers of our fuel, add a detergent type additive to keep the injectors clean. Injectors must atomize (fine mist) the fuel for complete combustion. If you have an injector sticking, then you could have the problem your having.
There are several problems that could be what's giving you this problem.
Let me know, if you feel comfortable in trying some testing, taking some things loose on your motor and we'll go from there.
If not, don't try to get this motor serviced at Sea-Doo. Their mechanics aren't trained on this engine. Never were. This motor is a Mercury M-2 jet drive V-6 EFI and only Mercury repair shops should be working on it.
Let me know if you want to give it a try!....I have the manual, we can take a peek if you want to.:cheers:

 

[angiegood]

I am able to do some things on my own. I'm in accounting, but when I went to college I had to fix alot of things on my own. We go to the desert alot to ride dirt bikes, and trust me even know we have brand new bikes and a brand new trailer there is always something to go wrong. One time my husband pulled away from out house with the electrical cord on our trailer still connected to the outlet and I rewired the main power cord to our trailer. ( I really needed a shower).

Seadoo is where I was trying to take it to. They gave me the number of a shop close to me named sunset marine, they work on all types of motors. I will keep looking into repairmen for Mercury if we can't find something.

One more thing when we bought the boat they had a power inverter that connected to the battery. He used it to blow up the tubes and stuff. We removed it, I was thinking maybe the battery is a good place to start. I know the battery cables are on there tightly, so I don't think it's the cables, but maybe another wire, I will check around there.

Our house was flooded over New Years and we are living in a hotel 50 miles from our house, so It may be a couple of days between when you make a suggestion and when I'm able to try it out.

I'm going to get the reciept from the last service so I can tell you what tests they did and the results.

Thanks so much again, everyone on this board seems like pretty amazing people.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Cool!....

That sounds good Angie.....I wonder if your house was one of the many I saw on the news from all the flooding and mudslides this past year....if so, hate to hear of your mis-fortune.
I have nothing but time, so if we make a suggestion on something to test, you can get back with me when ever you are able to do it. I got nothing but time. The important thing will be for YOU to take your time, so that you know your interpreting your results correctly.
In the trouble you say you've had, if the engine went to dead silence, I would start at the ignition system. But normally, if that has occured, it doesn't usually start right back up. If there was some spitting and sputtering, then I'd be wanting to look at the fuel system first. You can go dead on an engine with some fuel problems and then start right back up.
I believe you said the mechanic said your fuel pressure was a little low. This engine has two fuel pumps. An electric one that is used in starting, then once running the main pump runs off impulse pressure from the engine. There are also filter, lines, check valves, regulators and pop off valves. So, if you agree with the sputtering, I think the fuel system should be first.

If you make a reply, and like I said, better than 24 hours go by before you hear from one of the forum members or myself, please use the PM service of the forum to holler at me. We have several members who run the Mercury M2 so they may pop in to introduce themselves or offer some advice of their own.
Good luck and when your ready, we'll start by going over your first fuel system test. But, and I think I mentioned this already, you should look at the electrical plugs, all that you can see. Look for loose wires or when you un-snap a plug, look for that green or whiteish color corrosion. When you snap these plugs back together, have some "die electric" grease available and put a little squirt on your contacts. This will protect them from moisture and corrosion. If you come across bad corrosion anywhere, get an electric contact cleaner, such as CRC and clean the connections really well before putting the grease in them.
Oh and very important...............Disconnect the battery before doing any electrical or mechanical work. For your safety and the electrical systems health.

 

[angiegood]

Sounds good.

We were on vacation for four days and we had a pipe freeze and break. With all the wild fires it really helped put things into perspective, of course it's heartbreaking and it has been an up hill battle with the insurance, but the way I try and look at is at least I have a house to fix, I could be sifting through ashes.

The fuel pressure was low, but replacing the filter fixed that.

I made an appointment at Hipp Marine in San Diego on April 1st, I'm going to try and check as much as possible to see if I can find anything, but the guy I talked to seemed very knowledgable regarding the motor and said as part of their annual service they will disconnect and wires check them and grease them, so that sounds pretty good. He agreed finding someone to work on those motors can be challenging. The good news is that he mentioned most of the same things you have, so I feal confident he knows what he is talking about.

Thanks again

 

[seadoosnipe]

Hurricanes!....

I know what your talking about when it comes to insurance. After hurrican Ivan, then Katrina, we had to really work on getting these guys to help out.

Angie, if you want to trouble shoot this your self, it could save you hundreds of dollars. I'm willing to help you out. If you can't do it, then you can take it in. These shops normally charge $99 dollars an hour, just in labor. The parts are usually inflated 150%....but if your comfortable with that and really don't have the time or confidence, then I"m there for you. You do what you feel is best.
Make sure who ever you take it to is an OEM Mercury repair mechanic. And what ever you do, tell him you want him to trouble shoot, then give you an estimate. Then, if he does the work, tell him you want an itemized bill of the work performed.
I know that sounds so distrustfull, but I'm almost 49 years old and in my life time, I've seen some pretty crooked things go on. And I'm not talking about Brians tire and engine repair shop, I'm talking about Sears, Michelin and Firestone........some of the leaders in this industry. So please, be careful Money is hard to make these days and if it's for a repair, you want every dollar to count!..........:cheers:

 

[angiegood]

Hi seadoosnipe,

Hope all is well.

I have checked everything over and can't find any problems. We did had a minor setback though. My neighbor was kind enough to move our boat for us when we needed to get room for a dumpster for the demo of our house. While moving it he saw the plugs hanging down and thought we might have forgotten to put them back in, so he did. I'm sure you know what's coming! The engine compartment was 1/2 full of water from a freak winter storm which we only get like once every ten years here in sunny So. Cal. I researched the forum and followed the steps to get the water out accomplished that and sure enough it started right up. I had to charge the battery though. Between yesterday and today the battery died again and doesn't seem to want to take a charge, so to make a long story short we are replacing the battery this afternoon and taking it to the bay to test drive. I have my fingers crossed, but that was the only thing we could find wrong.

Do you think that is a realistic possibility? I am so hoping it will be. We replaced the factory radio and added an amp and a set of speakers right when the boat started getting bad. Since we only replaced the radio I didn't think to much about it, but could the addition of the amp be using more power then it should maybe causing the problem?


Thanks again,

Angie

 

[kustomkarl]

Angie, yes the amp is draining your battery. I would suggest you add another battery and a switch to prevent the battery from being depleted again. The engine will keep it charged and you won't have that problem again. That was a good thing your engine survived the water dunking...

Karl

 

[angiegood]

Good Morning-

Well the battery wasn't the problem.

I think it may be the safety shut off button (sorry I don't know the correct name). I can't be sure though. We were on the bay for literally 2 minutes before we were boarded by the coast gaurd. We emptied the boat of all the gear since it had all gotten flooded and we forgot to put the life jackets back in the boat, so we got a citation and we had to "terminate" our voyage. We are picking up the life jackets today and we will give it another try. While we were cruising back to the dock I could hear the engine start to sputter and I held the switch down with my finger and it stopped, I don't know if it's just a coincidence or what. When you push it in there is a tiny bit of play, but I don't know if that is normal or not.

I will let you know what happens. Where would you suggest I mount the extra battery?

Thanks

Angie

Have a great

 

[scrump]

Opinion

Angie,

In my opinion I would try to trouble shoot the engine first, not add the extra battery, yet. It is true that you need an auxillary battery, but you might disconnect the amp and stereo from its power source, make sure the batteries are charged and then try it out. If that solves the problem then you know what to do (as far as adding the auxillary battery). If that doesn't fix the problem then you know to look elsewhere. I think that the engine problem should come first and then the extra battery. This might save you some time and $$$, if you add the extra battery and it doesn't fix the problem, your just going to feel like your spinning your wheels and getting no where.

Scott

Note: When you are ready to add the aux. battery there is an excellent thread on this subject under the modify page, we are discussing the best way to install and there will probably be instructions and pics from one of the more experienced members.

 

[angiegood]

We replaced the main battery with a new one yesterday and didn't turn on the radio at all, so that's not it. I was just wondering for when we are ready to add the battery. We are trying to get the engine taken care of first.

The compression is good, the fuel pressure is good, we weren't able to find any bad wires, everything looks fine.

One question if the fuel pressure is good could it be a fuel pick up problem? One suggestion I got was to use another fuel source.

We weren't able to get out on the water long enough yesterday in order to see if the kill switch is causing the problem, but holding it in sure seemed to help. I am going to try it out today. I'm just not sure if that switch should have any play in it. I need someone to confirm. Any info on that switch would be great. It's the one the lanyard is connected to.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it. When it is time to add the battery I will check the forum.

Thanks again

Angie

 

[gagnond]

Angie,

Your problem sounds very similar to a problem I had with a car. You would be driving down the road and it just shut off. Pull over and it would start right up. Turned out the problem was with the iginition switch. Over time the contacts in the switch were burning/wearing out. You may be onto the problem with either the kill switch (Safety Lanyard Switch) or it may be the key switch.

Don

 

[kustomkarl]

It is very possible that the lanyard safety switch is bad. You could check continuity at the plug behind the switch with the lanyard attached to see if it working. It sound like it has more play than it should. Use a multi meter for continuity test, and let us know it that is the problem.

Karl