2002 Challenger 240 efi engine bogged and cut out wouldn't for 15-20 minutes

[02Challenger]

This past Saturday I purchased a 2002 Challenger 1800 with the 240 efi engine. I met the owner at the marina where they had it dewinterized. The boat was put in the water on the trailer and ran for a few minutes and everything seemed fine. I took it home and yesterday put it in the water. I let it warm up on the trailer for a few minutes and then took off. It didn't accelerate nearly as fast as I expected but did get up to 40 mph or so and seemed to run smooth. I only pushed it to WOT for a second or two at a time mostly holding around 3/4 throttle. After being out for about 4-5 minutes I was running roughly 35mph and the engine just started to bog down and then died, as it was bogging I tried to pump the throttle a little to keep it going and it didn't seem to react to the throttle being pumped at all. I tried to restart it and it sounded like the starter began to spin but once it made contact with the flywheel it would stop, this led me to believe the engine may have seized. I then had it towed to the dock and about 20 minutes after it originally died I turned the key and it fired right back up and seemed to idle fine. I only let it run for a few seconds before shutting it back down because I didn't want to damage the engine further if it was not getting oil.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm assuming a compression check would be a good place to start. Here are a few more details that might help.

-boat came with roughly 25-30 Gallons of fuel in it from the previous season. I topped it off with premium.
-oil tank was a little over half full
-Previous owner had shift/throttle cables replaced last year along with a new starter and starter relay. Oil pump was replaced 3 years ago

 

[02Challenger]

MORE INFO: I just spoke with the dealership that dewinterized the boat and they said because it started up again and idled fine that they suspect it is a Carbureter issue. So come to find out the boat has the 210 hp motor in it and not the 240 hp motor, even though the title says 240. Now I'm starting to wonder what else might be wrong with this boat.

 

[biffdotorg]

240 efi is a totally different animal from a 210 carb. You may want to have a word with the seller as it was a total misrepresentation.

 

[02Challenger]

I spoke with the seller this morning and the response I got was pretty much that I bought it and it's my boat to worry about now, not theirs. I'm not sure what I could even do legally as it was a private party sale on a 10 year old boat. I'm probably just going to clean the carbs, get the title straightened out with the proper information and turn around and sell it and try to recoop my money and move on.

 

[Dr Honda]

Post a pic of the top of the engine so we can verify. An engine S/N would be good too.

If the carbs were plugged up... it would be responding different. It almost sounds like the fuel pump wasn't working. BUT... on the restart... the electric lift pump filled the carbs again.

 

[biffdotorg]

If you don't feel that you got a horrible deal price wise, then get the carbs cleaned up and burn some gas through it. It is still a great boat and I am sure you will have plenty of fun with it.

 

[02Challenger]

The boat is at my parents place on the water right now so I don't have quick access to it, but I'll get over there in the next day or two and get a picture of it and post it. Thanks for the help, Ireally appreciate it.

How do you check if the fuel pump is working properly?

 

[02Challenger]

I paid $7,250 and it's in pretty good condition cosmetically. I suppose if it ends up just being a carb cleaning or fuel pump it would still be a decent deal. The only part that bothers me is that the title says it's a 240. Makes me wonder why it has a 210 in it. Do the 210's have an automatic choke? When I start it even cold it fires right up and idles fine and there is no manual choke that I have seen.

 

[buckeye_paul]

Me too!

I paid $7,250 and it's in pretty good condition cosmetically. I suppose if it ends up just being a carb cleaning or fuel pump it would still be a decent deal. The only part that bothers me is that the title says it's a 240. Makes me wonder why it has a 210 in it. Do the 210's have an automatic choke? When I start it even cold it fires right up and idles fine and there is no manual choke that I have seen.

When I test drove my boat the owner told me it was a 240 and that's what was on the title. When I looked at the motor the serial plate showed it was a 210. I wrote down the serial numbers of the boat and motor. When I looked up the serial numbers on the net it showed it was a 210. I called him and he really didn't know it was a 210. He was not the original owner. The boat was in great shape and he took my lower offer. There is someone else in this forum that this has happened to as well.

P.S. I talked to the person at the title office the day I bought the boat. She said they don't verify what is put on the title, so if someone tells her it's a 240 or whatever that's what goes on the title. I had my title changed to 210.

 

[Dr Honda]

As far as I know... yes, it has an automatic cold start system. I don't think it's a choke... but it is an enrichment system.

 

[02Challenger]

Thanks for the great advice. I have been busy the last few weeks and haven't had any time to go look at it. I'm planning on working on it this weekend though. Is there any way to test the fuel pump? Also where is the fuel pump located? I believe there are two pumps and I have no idea which is which.

The first thing I plan on doing is a compression check. I have never done a motor like this, only sinlge cylinder 2 strokes. Should I pull all the plugs and then test each cylinder, or pull all the plug wires and then pull each plug individually to test?

After that I was going to check the fuel filters. Does this engine just have the 1 fuel filter sitting on the port side of the engine?

Last I was going to test the fuel pumps. Is there any way I can test this at home? I have a multimeter if that helps.

I guess if I go through these steps and all these components look good my next step will be a carb cleaning.

Any further suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the help everyone has given me!!!

 

[02Challenger]

I did a compression test this weekend. My numbers were 0, 115, 120, 115, 112, 0. The two 0's were the top drivers side and bottom passenger side. The engine also wasn't warm so I'm guessing this would lower the numbers some. Here's the big mystery to me. If the boat starts fine and idles fine how are two cylinders getting 0 PSI? The first day I had it out I gave it some gas and it died after a minute or two. The consensus on here was either a clogged carb or a bad fuel pump. The boat still starts and idles fine without any strange noises or vibrations. Is it possible that the pistons have holes burnt through them and thats why I'm getting no compression? I'm taking a bore scope home from work tonight and will hopefully get a look inside tomorrow afternoon. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I don't know much about these boats and its been a heck of a learning curve!

 

[Dr Honda]

Well... yes and no. We do compression tests on a cold engine, with the throttle open.

Regardless.... that engine is done. It's time for a rebuild. (Sorry)

 

[02Challenger]

I was assuming I was going need to need a rebuild. I did the compression check with the throttle closed. Would that make any differance?

I'm not sure where to begin with an engine rebuild. I saw a powerhead rebuild kit on ebay for $900 with shipping. I'm considering doing the rebuild myself, I'm just nervous because I have never tackled anything this big. But I also don't want to have to pay 3-4,000 for a dealer to get my boat running again. Any suggestions?

 

[El Toro 33809]

What does the rebuild kit include? $900 doesn't sound bad. You will have your work cut out for you with the 6-cylinder. I will let the good Doctor chime in on this. He's the expert.

 

[Dr Honda]

I was assuming I was going need to need a rebuild. I did the compression check with the throttle closed. Would that make any differance?

I'm not sure where to begin with an engine rebuild. I saw a powerhead rebuild kit on ebay for $900 with shipping. I'm considering doing the rebuild myself, I'm just nervous because I have never tackled anything this big. But I also don't want to have to pay 3-4,000 for a dealer to get my boat running again. Any suggestions?

It will make a difference most of the time. Those numbers will come up above 120, and that's good. But the ones that are at zero... they are just dead.

The place to start is to remove the engine from the boat, and strip it down. From there... assess the damage. If the cyl walls are damaged, you will want to order an "oversized" kit, and have the engine bored to fit the pistons. If the crank needs work, you can send that to Marine Crankshaft in SoCal.

You should be able to do the rebuild yourself for $1500 (or less)

I'm in the middle of one myself, and I will be more than happy to answer any Q's you have.

What does the rebuild kit include? $900 doesn't sound bad. You will have your work cut out for you with the 6-cylinder. I will let the good Doctor chime in on this. He's the expert.

Thanks... but in the Merc section... I'm still a rookie. But... I'm diving deep into my own project, and learning fast.

anyway.... The kit from eBay, from a seller named "Fasterthanmachone" is a nice kit. For the $900, you get almost all the gaskets you need, 6 pistons, rings, wrist pins, WP bearings, big end bearings, and crank seals.

The only gasket it doesn't come with... that I think it should... is a base gasket that goes between the exhaust mount, and the jet pump. This is where the engine separates to come out of the boat... so you have to change it. But, it's not a big deal. I ordered one from Boats.net because I wanted to replace the rod bolts, and get a new fuel filter.


Now... there is someone else selling a kit for about $1300, and it comes with sealants, spark plugs, rod bolts, and main bearings.

 

[02Challenger]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm starting to lean towards paying to have it done. I don't know a ton about engines and I'd hate to sink $1,000+ worth of parts and dozens of hours to find out the hard way I did something wrong.

I bought the boat used and as a "Great running boat". I was stupid enough to trust the previous owner because I heard it idle on the trailer. So I may start looking into taking the previous owner to court for the cost of rebuilding the engine.

 

[Dr Honda]

I feel your pain... but in the USA (not sure if you are in the USA)... a used vehicle is always "As Is"... unless you have a warranty in writing. Also... it sounds like the boat ran when it left his possession. I don't think you will have any legal claim for the owner to help pay for the fix.

One thing... if you have a boat shop do the work... they aren't going to rebuild your engine. It takes too much time in a shop environment. They are going to get a rebuilt powerhead, and just do a swap. Depending on who they get it from... you are looking at $3500 to $4500 for the powerhead, and probably $400 to $500 for the R&R. So... it could be upward of $5k.

I'm not trying to scare you with that... but I just want to let you know what may happen.

 

[02Challenger]

I did contact two different shops today and both said they would just replace the power head. I was kind of surprised they would say this without even seeing it and knowing the extent of the damage.

I'm in Massachusetts. Does anyone know of a shop anywhere in the northeast that would rebuild it?

 

[Dr Honda]

It's because they don't want to spend the time to do a rebuild. And to be honest... it will cost more for a local shop to do the rebuild, than for them to just buy one, and do the swap. Also... most rebuild companies give a 1 year warranty. If a local shop does the rebuild... there won't be a warranty.

I get this all the time at my own shop. Guys want me to do a rebuild, and I tell them that If I do it... I won't use inexpensive parts, and my engine will cost more that getting one from SBT. (for seadoo ski's) Also... I charge $65 hr, and by the time I finish the rebuild... there would be at least $1k in labor alone. (on a 2/3 cyl ski engine)


The only time I build an engine, is if someone wants something special, or it's a restoration of an old, non-standard engine.