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2001 Merc 240EFI MAP AIT

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jamepc

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I'm looking at the online Mercury Parts Catalog for a SN# OE382923 engine but cannot find the MAP or AIT sensor part numbers.
Does anyone have those available? Also if you can actually see them in the Parts Catalog, let me know which section.
Along the same lines, there's no other option for the $450 TPS, correct?
Thank you
 
$450 tps

I'm looking at the online Mercury Parts Catalog for a SN# OE382923 engine but cannot find the MAP or AIT sensor part numbers.
Does anyone have those available? Also if you can actually see them in the Parts Catalog, let me know which section.
Along the same lines, there's no other option for the $450 TPS, correct?
Thank you

The TPS is a serious issue with these engines. It (almost) seems as if Merc is trying to trash these engines by pricing parts out-of-sight. That TPS is priced higher than Mercedes units.
I found NOS TPS with 3-wire round connector for $125. 10 minutes with a soldering iron, and it has been in service 2 years.
 
Like you said, perhaps the MAP is built into the ECM. DrHonda, can your verify this? I know you have extensive knowledge of them engine.
Thank you
 
Yes.... the MAP is in the ECU on the early 240.

I've been on a mission to find a compatible TPS for our engine for the past 4 years... and... well... there isn't one. (more or less) There are a few out there that are physically the same. They were used in a few EU/UK cars. (Jag, land rover, so on) But they are 6K ohms resistance. Ours is a 10K ohm. But the real problem is... they have the Port side temp sender tied in, and it acts a fuel trim to the ECU. SO... we need something with the correct range. When I had my shop open, I was going to build a digital replacement, using a cheap, easy to find TPS. (With an adaptor, and a PIC controller to output the correct signal) But after I closed it... it became an abandoned project.

If someone has a CNC, and wants to pick up where I left off... I would be happy to write the code.


As far as "Mercury wanting to kill the engine"... they have nothing to do with it. It's an old Cummins ECU and fuel injection system, with parts that aren't common to anything modern. Merc doesn't set the price, they just buy the parts, and they are getting raped for them too. Basically rare, and obsolete.


As far as the easy solution... it was already posted above. Get the OLD outboard TPS. It's physically the same one, with the wrong connector. (round, instead of flat) Watch ebay, and they can be had on the cheap. I got one a few years back basically for free. It was in a big box of new old parts, and I sold off most of the other things.

So, I guess my advice for the early 240 guys.... if you are going to keep your boat for a while... get an old style TPS, and hold onto it for when you need it. (Everything else is relatively cheap)
 
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Thanks for that reply and explanation,it's much appreciated.
Do you have a part number for the older style TPS w/ the round connector?
Regards,
James
 
For the 2002 240, the TPS part numbers I found are 148512 & 14851004, I think the second number is the updated one.

I found a 14851T03 which looks like it has the round connector. Is this the one this the one that fits, just have to swap connectors? And it's been verified the Ohms (or however they are measured) is the same as the flat plug type? If this is it, it looks like those have went up in price now also. Busters Marine has the flat plug for $447 and the round plug for $425. Not that much of a difference.

Thanks again,
James
 
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ummmm......



yep to all of the above.

I have personally verified the round plug version, and I have one sitting in my garage. (-03) As you found out... if you buy it from a dealer... they are basically the same price. BUT, since it's for an old engine, they do come up cheap. Just keep your eye open for them.

FYI... Since they are expensive, and casue issues... I would never recommend buying a used one.



A quick look on ebay brought up an old style one for $375. Not cheap, but considering you can save $70... it's a good deal. (but I've seen them WAY less than that)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-Indicat...ash=item4647bc95fe:g:2g8AAOSwuYVWnTK8&vxp=mtr
 
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OK, I got the TPS coming.
Here's what I think may have caused mine to go bad. I described this issue in another thread (and posted a video of how it sounds when running).
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?81532-extremly-rough-running
The last time we were out (years ago now) the throttle plates got stuck in the wide open position but the throttle lever was all the way on idle. It wasn't stuck in full rev but it limped back to the dock with a very VERY rough idle (as per video). So with the plates wide open and the lever on idle, perhaps it just messed with the TPS too much and caused it to fail? I'm hoping the replacement TPS will resolve this issue.
 
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Humm...


If the throttle plates were up at full... that engine would have been reving out of control.

As far as the TPS being bad... it's not hard to check. Basically... disconnect it, and put a meter on the center, and either outer pin. Then have someone slowly open the throttle, and watch the meter. It should change resistance evenly. When they go bad... there could simply be a dead spot... or it could go "Open" somewhere along it's travel.

If that seems ok... then you tap the wires, and watch to voltage going back to the ECU.

FYI... you have to disconnect the port side temp sender when doing tests.
 
OK... I remember that thread. But my comments still stand.

While on the hose...

1) You may over heat.

2) There's no load, so it's rough, and Smokey.

(Too hard to diagnose things)
 
"If the throttle plates were up at full... that engine would have been reving out of control. "

I wouldn't be too sure of this unless you've experienced it yourself. I've seen plenty of EFI's that wouldn't rev out WOT throttle when a sensor or some component was awol.
 
Humm...


If the throttle plates were up at full... that engine would have been reving out of control.


I can guarantee the throttle plates were stuck in the fully open position, the throttle lever was in idle, and we limped back on a very rough idle. I was there. I remember having to stick a long screwdriver in the tight intake opening and a small pry released the plates. I could not reproduce the issue, moving the throttle lever all the way open, even with a little extra force would not get the plates to stick again.

OK... I remember that thread. But my comments still stand.


2) There's no load, so it's rough, and Smokey.

Perhaps its difficult to see and hear but that idle is no where near a normal one, even under no load.
 
To both:


OK... I will admit, there are a few ways for the plates to be open, and the engine not reving out of control. It's more common with a DFI engine. But, with our early 240's... there's more wrong than just a suspected sensor.

On these merc engines... the ECU will ignore all sensors, and will run from an internal base map. So it will rev. Basically, the TPS, and temp sender will "Trim" the fuel. SO... if the ECU is getting bad info from them, it will add up to 40% more fuel (to be safe) at idle. This is when we get smoke, hard starting, and fouling plugs when they go bad. But, if you open the throttle... the MAP will see the vac drop, and let the RPM's come up.



So, let's look at the reasons an early 240 could stay at a low RPM, with the plates open.

1) Lack of fuel. You could have lost the signal to a few of the injectors. There is a single injector per cyl.

2) Lost spark: If something is cutting spark randomly to the cyl's... that could keep you from reving up.


Reflecting on those.... If you have a couple fouled plugs, or coils that went bad.... the engine will still run remarkably smooth. The issue will present itself when you open the throttle. Basically, the peak RPM will be low. I've seen these engines run well on 3 cyls. The only way to get a rough, low, limping RPM, is for the misses to be random.

3) Cut wires or damage to the ignition parts. It could happen, since they are close to the flywheel. AND, if they are chaffed, that could cause the random ignition, as they ground out.

4) Mechanical: This isn't the one we want to talk about. BUT... have we checked the compression?? Did the engine loose a piston or two?? Even if it did... it may run better than you would expect. Mine ran OK with a connecting rod hanging out the side of the engine, and piston that was blown to pieces.



When I try to help... all I can do, is diagnose with the available info. If it's an unusual situation, we have to fall back on standard procedures to dial things in. SO... when I give my input... I'm giving the most likely situation, and I avoid the least likely until I get more info. AND, in this situation... it's is VERY unlikely that a situation will arise that will allow the Merc 240 EFI with the Cummins ECU to "Limp" at a low RPM with the throttle plates physically open.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (but, I'm not always right either.)
 
I appreciate all your help Tony, thank you. The existing TPS tested bad so that's where I'm starting, it's possible I'll be coming back for more help if it doesn't resolve the issue. I guess it doesn't hurt to do a compression test while I'm waiting on the TPS to arrive.
I'll update the thread once I figure out more.
Thanks again,
James
 
If it tested bad... then replacing it is good.

A compression test can tell you a lot about the health on a 2-stroke. I check mine at least once a year. Normally when I put it away for the winter. If there's a change in pressure... you can tell if there are issues coming up. (and maybe replace something before there's a melt-down)

But, since there was a rough running issue... I would probably also pop the flywheel off, and take a peek under it while you are waiting on the TPS.
 
To both:


OK... I will admit, there are a few ways for the plates to be open, and the engine not reving out of control. It's more common with a DFI engine. But, with our early 240's... there's more wrong than just a suspected sensor.

On these merc engines... the ECU will ignore all sensors, and will run from an internal base map. So it will rev. Basically, the TPS, and temp sender will "Trim" the fuel. SO... if the ECU is getting bad info from them, it will add up to 40% more fuel (to be safe) at idle. This is when we get smoke, hard starting, and fouling plugs when they go bad. But, if you open the throttle... the MAP will see the vac drop, and let the RPM's come up.



So, let's look at the reasons an early 240 could stay at a low RPM, with the plates open.

1) Lack of fuel. You could have lost the signal to a few of the injectors. There is a single injector per cyl.

2) Lost spark: If something is cutting spark randomly to the cyl's... that could keep you from reving up.


Reflecting on those.... If you have a couple fouled plugs, or coils that went bad.... the engine will still run remarkably smooth. The issue will present itself when you open the throttle. Basically, the peak RPM will be low. I've seen these engines run well on 3 cyls. The only way to get a rough, low, limping RPM, is for the misses to be random.

3) Cut wires or damage to the ignition parts. It could happen, since they are close to the flywheel. AND, if they are chaffed, that could cause the random ignition, as they ground out.

4) Mechanical: This isn't the one we want to talk about. BUT... have we checked the compression?? Did the engine loose a piston or two?? Even if it did... it may run better than you would expect. Mine ran OK with a connecting rod hanging out the side of the engine, and piston that was blown to pieces.



When I try to help... all I can do, is diagnose with the available info. If it's an unusual situation, we have to fall back on standard procedures to dial things in. SO... when I give my input... I'm giving the most likely situation, and I avoid the least likely until I get more info. AND, in this situation... it's is VERY unlikely that a situation will arise that will allow the Merc 240 EFI with the Cummins ECU to "Limp" at a low RPM with the throttle plates physically open.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. (but, I'm not always right either.)

Bravo Tony, on most all of the above! :) Incidentally, I was going to suggest a compression test is highly in order and add that since these motors are so expensive he should not have run it back to the marina if it wasn't running perfectly. This is a great way to destroy a 2-stroke and most don't make it back to the marina and don't leave the marina without disappointing news and/or a new power head.

Last EFI engine I worked on that wouldn't rev despite WOT throttle blades had all bad sensor data due to the 5v regulator inside the ECU which provides power for the sensors had gone south. Not the only case, just the most recent. Point is, erroneous sensor data can result in this symptom in many cases.

Not saying the merc is capable of this although I believe the OP. Most mercs I see either run fine(almost) or will never run again. The one compelling case is the sportjet but there aren't many around here. The outboards are usually replaced with something less "welfare" such as a Yamaha.
 
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