Just finished replacing my 3 broken bolts from the exhaust manifold to the pipe, and also changed the plugs. Decided it would be a good idea to check everything before I put it into the water. Took a little bit to get started but once it did it smoked horribly. Now the final day last year, when running it from the house to the launch ramp, it looked like someone had released a smoke bomb. I thought the busted exhaust bolts were the reason. After searching the forums, I've come to think it's either the oil synchro or bad seals. I am still running oil injection. How do I check the synchros and seals? Thanks.
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2000 GTi smoke (and not just a little)
- Thread starter bammer24
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Rotary shaft seals...
Even if your oil injection system was out of syncro, it wouldn't give it cause to smoke horribly............so, it's probably your rotary shaft seals.
Have you noticed a huge amount of oil use from your injection tank?
Pull your plugs, are they wet with oil?
Lastly, you can't really check the oil syncro without doing the carbs first. Chances are, if you didn't screw with it to begin with, it's o.k.........
If it smokes like a mosquito truck, then it's the seals.......:cheers:
Even if your oil injection system was out of syncro, it wouldn't give it cause to smoke horribly............so, it's probably your rotary shaft seals.
Have you noticed a huge amount of oil use from your injection tank?
Pull your plugs, are they wet with oil?
Lastly, you can't really check the oil syncro without doing the carbs first. Chances are, if you didn't screw with it to begin with, it's o.k.........
If it smokes like a mosquito truck, then it's the seals.......:cheers:
yea just givin' a quick update, checked the synchro and it may be off about a 32nd to a 16th of an inch. pulled the plugs and they and the piston heads are pretty wet. how bad is it to change the seals? i'm pretty mechanically inclined, just do not have the special tools. and yea its like a mosquito truck. this blows!
well if the seals are bad on the Rotary Shaft Gear in the cases...you have to pull the engine...split the cases ...and rebuild the crank seals. uh it's not a quick or light of hart mechanical project. It is also a 8 year old machine. You could do a core exchange with a company that does re-manufactured engines..." www.sbtontheweb.com " It will cost little less than $900.00. You could do it you self with some pullers and a machine shop to do the seal replacement on the crank, for a few hundred. What is the condition of the seadoo and the compression? That might make up your mind for you if it is a beat up seadoo....
Karl
Karl
well really the waverunner is in good condition, however, not with a bad motor it is somewhat worthless. I was looking at that site between the premium and standard motors. It seems as though that may be the easiest way, am I correct? Looks as if I remove my old motor, strip the external parts from it and take the new engine and do all the reverse, in other words, no messing with internals. The other option would be to tear the entire engine apart and purchase a new crankshaft for a quarter of the price, am I seeing this correctly?
it is the 717 engine. My dad told me before I began freaking out that I need to do a compression test. I agree with him, but will a bad compression number tell me my crank seals are good and my cylinders/pistons/rings are bad? Both spark plugs and piston tops were wet with oil. The other Q he had is, how does a bad crank seal allow oil into the cylinders to burn and then
smoke?
smoke?
The 717 engine has a Rotary Valve intake. The compression won't be affected by the seals that are bad. The Rotary Valve Shaft Gear is in the lower crankcase. it is sealed on each side of the crank by 2 seals. one on either side. The seals are on the crank itself and are suppose to keep the oil from seeping into the cylinder area. The Rotary Valve Gear Shaft is in a oil bath supplied from a hose that runs up from the crank case, between the carbs and leads to the injector tank that is also the oil supplied to the oil injector system to the cylinders. When the seals go bad it allows much more injector oil ( comes from the same source) to "seep" into the bottom of cylinders and mix with the fuel and injector oil already present in the combustion chamber. That is why it is smoking...extra 2 stroke oil. It will only get worse with time. The longer it sits the more oil will "seep" into the cylinders at the bottom of the crank. You have just those 2 options, as you described above. If you have any other questions let me know.
Karl
Karl
I'll bet the compression will be good and high...it has lots of oil to seal the rings... I'm not sure if you need info about compression checks but her is some info anyway;
To test compression, remove both spark plugs. Place spark plug caps on the plug cap studs near the cylinder head to ground the empty caps. This completes the circuit of the ignition electrical system and prevents any electrical problems from the caps being un grounded. Using the correct adapter for the threaded end of the tester,( same length of the spark plug threads length)Screw in the tester in one plug hole. Hold the throttle wide open. Push the start button. Watch the compression guage, when it peaks out at the most compression, let go the start button. Read the psi number. I would do it 3 times to be sure it is accurate. Check both cylinders the same way. The ideal compression is 150 psi per cylinder. If it is less, it's not a problem as long as they are close to being the same. If the psi is less than 90 it might need be time for a tear down and a rebuild. If the psi in 1 cylinder is say 140 psi and the other is 80 psi you need to tear down and repair. This difference is a lot and there is a problem. I hope this helps you.
Karl
To test compression, remove both spark plugs. Place spark plug caps on the plug cap studs near the cylinder head to ground the empty caps. This completes the circuit of the ignition electrical system and prevents any electrical problems from the caps being un grounded. Using the correct adapter for the threaded end of the tester,( same length of the spark plug threads length)Screw in the tester in one plug hole. Hold the throttle wide open. Push the start button. Watch the compression guage, when it peaks out at the most compression, let go the start button. Read the psi number. I would do it 3 times to be sure it is accurate. Check both cylinders the same way. The ideal compression is 150 psi per cylinder. If it is less, it's not a problem as long as they are close to being the same. If the psi is less than 90 it might need be time for a tear down and a rebuild. If the psi in 1 cylinder is say 140 psi and the other is 80 psi you need to tear down and repair. This difference is a lot and there is a problem. I hope this helps you.
Karl
how long has this guy smoked? did you run it a good ten minutes or so? 717's aren't so notorious for crank seals. my speedster (2 717's) smoked like a smoke bomb for 10 minutes first run of the year. gives me a nice little puff first start every weekend. if it is still smoking after a half-hour, then u have a problem. it will probably clear out pretty quik though.
Well the compression test came back with about 140 on both cylinders. I only let it run for about 2 to 3 minutes before shutting it down. The final day last year, I ran it across the lake, all was just no wake speed, and it smoked like a bomb then too. What would make seals go bad? If I took it out to the lake a ran it for awhile and opened it up, would the smoke still go away if the seals were bad?
Run it, the worst that will happen is the mosquito population will fall. It will get hard to start and maybe foul plugs... It has plenty of lubrication... go have fun.
Karl
Karl
if you take out the 4 bolts that hold the bed plate to the mounts , you can scootch motor far enough forward to remove it. the shims are under the rubber mounts, between them and the hull. if you leave them alone, engine alignment shouldn't change. if any mounts are broken, (common) you will wanna re-align motor. pulling the pump and driveshaft is not a real big job. you need to do the oil reservoir in the pump anyway, and i bet it needs a wear ring too. it is also very difficult to install the motor with shaft in place.
well I will probably be doing it at my shop where I have access to a crane so hopefully it will help. I think I'm going to attempt to purchase a reman motor and go from there, change their wear rings. I'm not sure if I'm going to mess with the carb other then clean it out real good. Anything else I should be aware of?
If you do the re manufactured engine, just check out all the old item you re-install in the engine to be sure everything that needs changing out is changed at that time. Starter, carbs, stator assy, etc.
We'll be here when it's time for the change out.
Karl
We'll be here when it's time for the change out.
Karl
does this guy have the grey fuel lines? if so, they gotta go. the silicone lining dissolves in the ethanol in gas these days. then it un-dissolves inside the carbs. auto parts store black fuel line. i think 1/4 inch. might be 5/16ths. i think a crane is overkill. i lift them out myself. one trick i found to keep oil out of bilge. there are 3 oil lines. the one to oil pump, remove at the filter a couple of inches from pump. plug with a bolt or spark plug. trap it along side of oil tank under rubber strap so that it's end is above oil tank. remove the big line from top of tank, leaving it attached to motor. have a hose pinching device handy. blow into hose you removed from top of tank. you will evacuate all the oil in rotary valve cavity into oil tank. pinch off hose that you saw all the oil run up. now, when motor is loose and flipped up on it's nose in engine bay, detach the pinched hose from motor under carbs, and attach it to where the other hose was attached to top of oil tank. then attach the hose still attached to left (port) side of motor to where you just removed hose under carbs. when re-installing, make sure these 2 hoses get done firstest. they are a pain to go back to when everything is in place.
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Lots of good info!....
Bammer, there is a lot of good info in here for what your looking to do. I don't even think I need to say anything, but hell, why not!
Like derek asked, how long have you run the motor to try and clear up the smoke? If your leak at the seals isn't that bad, you should be able to clear up the smoke the longer you run. If the smoke doesn't clear up after an hour of running, then make sure you check your oil tank level. Do that before you run and after, then you'll see how much oil you're using.
I use SBT on a regular basis. They are a very reputable company and easy to work with. If you order the engine, they'll give you 10 days to swap everything over and send the old motor back to them. I do agree, it's more cost effective to do the complete exchange than to split the casing to do the crank.
With all the other info supplied in the forum, I guess thats all I can throw in there. Great job ya'll.........:cheers:
Bammer, there is a lot of good info in here for what your looking to do. I don't even think I need to say anything, but hell, why not!
Like derek asked, how long have you run the motor to try and clear up the smoke? If your leak at the seals isn't that bad, you should be able to clear up the smoke the longer you run. If the smoke doesn't clear up after an hour of running, then make sure you check your oil tank level. Do that before you run and after, then you'll see how much oil you're using.
I use SBT on a regular basis. They are a very reputable company and easy to work with. If you order the engine, they'll give you 10 days to swap everything over and send the old motor back to them. I do agree, it's more cost effective to do the complete exchange than to split the casing to do the crank.
With all the other info supplied in the forum, I guess thats all I can throw in there. Great job ya'll.........:cheers:
well took it out yesterday for about an hour to an hour and a half. Good news, the waverunner was not a mosquito sprayer. It did for the first 4 minutes, but then just quit. As I made my way to the speed lanes, I was toying with the throttle and the whole thing just died, but started back up. The spark plugs look real good as well. There is a light brown coloring to the porcelain. The only thing I found odd was that the spark grounding steel only had half with some remaining oil buildup(probably from the test run in the shop). I'm going to put another new set of spark plugs in today because I wasn't the most pleased with the throttle response. Thanks again for all your info and help. I feel kind of stupid that I was beginning to think that a new motor was needed. Oh well, maybe someday.
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