2000 challenger 2000 with mercury 240 EFI that bogs out at 3500/4000 RPM

[jwp]

Hi Everyone,

I am purchased a 2000 seadoo challenger 2000 with the mercury M2 240 EFI in it. I knew when I bought it that it had issues bogging and he couldn't get above 10/15 mph without it bogging out. I brought it home this spring and went to work on the basics.

Checked compression (cold with throttle closed) all running around 125-132 psi (didn't know I was supposed to test WOT).
Knew I had fuel because it would fire right up and idle, so I went to spark. Put a timing light on each plug wire while running and found multiple plugs not firing.
Removed the flywheel and tested the stator which checked out ok and tested the trigger and it was bad, so I bought a new trigger and replaced it. I have spark at all plugs, so I went to the lake to test it. Ran good in the water (it always smokes for the first few minutes - assumed that it is burning the oil up from not firing cylinders), but once I got out of the marina and started accelerating, it did the same thing. It would get up to about 10/15 mph which is somewhere around 3500/4000 RPM and it falls on its face. The engine acts as though it is dying and barely runs until I pull the throttle back down. It goes right back to running decent and it runs along fine at low RPM below about 10 MPH. I felt like I had a fuel starvation problem, so I put it in the hoist and went to work on it.

I have now cleaned every fuel screen, replaced the filter and water separator, replaced all fuel hoses, removed the anti syphon valve and am now drafting fresh premium fuel out of a gas can. The VST has been disassembled and cleaned as well. I removed and flushed every injector with power tune and they all operated with 12 VDC. I put a clear fuel line on the VST outlet with a pressure gauge and see no bubbles and pressure stays in the 30's even under the bog condition, so I now feel that the fuel delivery system to the injectors is not the issue.

I have also replaced the spark plugs with NGK BPZ8HS10 with 0.040" gaps, installed a spark gap tester on each coil and at idle it has great spark out to almost 3/4" gap! Temp sensors in both heads have been tested and I believe they are good.

I am left scratching my head looking for a solution and am running out of things that I can test myself and the marina is too busy to look at it right now. I am planning on testing a few more things today:

Spark gap test at higher throttle to see if I am losing spark there.
I found no signs of a throttle guardian in the helm, so assuming that doesn't apply
I'll probably clean/lube the neutral safety switch in case it is sticking, but that doesn't make sense since I can get to close to 4000 RPM before it bogs
Retest the stator/trigger
Test out the TPS voltage and resistance
Remove the EFI cover and see if I get clean fuel injector pulses on all cylinders
See if I can test the MAP and air temp sensors if I can find it in the manual

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, I would really appreciate the assistance! Also, I can post pictures/videos of the tests or operation of the boat so you can see it firsthand. Below is a quick video of it bogging down upon acceleration

Thanks

 

[Shortrun]

Thanks for including a video, very good idea.
Did you test the Intake Air Temperature sensor? Ohms, at about 70 degrees F should be 8500 ohms.

I don't think you can test the MAP sensor as it is inside the ECU , which cannot be opened.

 

[ripcuda]

Impressive diag work so far. Video really helps too.
Your situation is eerily similar to my own.

I can't rev beyond ~4k. In my case, I've found using a timing light that my #1 and #4 cylinders stop sparking as I throttle up above idle ~2000-2500. They spark great at idle... and engine starts and idles great... but a throttle up and it starts breaking up... and with 2 dropped cylinders... it can't rev beyond 4k. Since #1 and #4 cylinders share a trigger... and my triggers ohm tested a little low ~940ohms... I've ordered a new trigger.

You mention already having a new trigger... so hmmm. You might still want to test spark above idle.

Also... check your TPS. I found inserting a single copper wire strand (thin) into the connector and then plugging connector back together... allowed me to get voltage reads on the wires without piercing the insulation. I'm wonder if TPS is an issue for you though... since TPS doesn't affect WOT... and in your vid sounds like your breaking up bad at WOT.

I would test the stator and triggers again. It could also be a bad ignition control module... but those are said to be pretty stout... so not sure. But the ICM does clean trigger voltages and sends it to the coils for firing... so it's definitely involved.

Cheers!

 

[jwp]

Thanks for including a video, very good idea.
Did you test the Intake Air Temperature sensor? Ohms, at about 70 degrees F should be 8500 ohms.

I don't think you can test the MAP sensor as it is inside the ECU , which cannot be opened.

Just tested it and looks like about 106 kohms at about 67 degrees F.

So I guess I will be calling the marina to see if they have one! Thanks

 

[Shortrun]

Mine was failed as well. Just as a test, i found a 8.5 K ohm resistor and put it in there, in place of the sensor. Of course the sensor has to be installed to fill the hole.

If the temperature is not 70 F then a different value of resistor is required.

Most people don't have resistors laying around, but if you do. It does work. AS A TEMPORARY TEST.

 

[Tim75]

Hi Everyone,

I am purchased a 2000 seadoo challenger 2000 with the mercury M2 240 EFI in it. I knew when I bought it that it had issues bogging and he couldn't get above 10/15 mph without it bogging out. I brought it home this spring and went to work on the basics.

Checked compression (cold with throttle closed) all running around 125-132 psi (didn't know I was supposed to test WOT).
Knew I had fuel because it would fire right up and idle, so I went to spark. Put a timing light on each plug wire while running and found multiple plugs not firing.
Removed the flywheel and tested the stator which checked out ok and tested the trigger and it was bad, so I bought a new trigger and replaced it. I have spark at all plugs, so I went to the lake to test it. Ran good in the water (it always smokes for the first few minutes - assumed that it is burning the oil up from not firing cylinders), but once I got out of the marina and started accelerating, it did the same thing. It would get up to about 10/15 mph which is somewhere around 3500/4000 RPM and it falls on its face. The engine acts as though it is dying and barely runs until I pull the throttle back down. It goes right back to running decent and it runs along fine at low RPM below about 10 MPH. I felt like I had a fuel starvation problem, so I put it in the hoist and went to work on it.

I have now cleaned every fuel screen, replaced the filter and water separator, replaced all fuel hoses, removed the anti syphon valve and am now drafting fresh premium fuel out of a gas can. The VST has been disassembled and cleaned as well. I removed and flushed every injector with power tune and they all operated with 12 VDC. I put a clear fuel line on the VST outlet with a pressure gauge and see no bubbles and pressure stays in the 30's even under the bog condition, so I now feel that the fuel delivery system to the injectors is not the issue.

I have also replaced the spark plugs with NGK BPZ8HS10 with 0.040" gaps, installed a spark gap tester on each coil and at idle it has great spark out to almost 3/4" gap! Temp sensors in both heads have been tested and I believe they are good.

I am left scratching my head looking for a solution and am running out of things that I can test myself and the marina is too busy to look at it right now. I am planning on testing a few more things today:

Spark gap test at higher throttle to see if I am losing spark there.
I found no signs of a throttle guardian in the helm, so assuming that doesn't apply
I'll probably clean/lube the neutral safety switch in case it is sticking, but that doesn't make sense since I can get to close to 4000 RPM before it bogs
Retest the stator/trigger
Test out the TPS voltage and resistance
Remove the EFI cover and see if I get clean fuel injector pulses on all cylinders
See if I can test the MAP and air temp sensors if I can find it in the manual

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, I would really appreciate the assistance! Also, I can post pictures/videos of the tests or operation of the boat so you can see it firsthand. Below is a quick video of it bogging down upon acceleration

Thanks

I had issues similar to yours. Engine cold, trigger tested OK. When it got hot (running) it would fail.

Can you test while on the water? Engine hot.

I have been using a trigger brand CDI that has been OK for a year. Much cheaper than Merc.

It is not your neutral safety switch.

 

[jwp]

I did happen to have some resistors laying around the garage (lol) and one came in at about 9.7 kohms, so we jumped intake air temp sensor and took it for a spin. At first it actually started accelerating and made it to almost 5k and then fell on its face again. I also tested spark on all cylinders under load up to bogging out. All cylinders had good spark, but it ran terrible with just one cylinder unplugged and would stall out if left idling. As you can see from the video, the fuel pressure held up just fine around 34 psi and I only saw it dip to maybe 32 if it was stalling out.

We put it back in the hoist and went on to test the tps. I made a little jumper to bridge the tps connector so I could pull data off any combination of wire pairs, but I like the thought of trying it with a copper strand! Results were bad and didn't make sense. Really weird voltages like 3.4 volts throttle closed and 3.6 WOT. Swapped leads and got like -0.001 to -0.002 volts. We pulled the tps or tpi as the parts catalog indicates and started performing resistance checks. The only leads we picked up resistance on were the brown to blue and it went from 2.9 kohms closed to 35 kohms WOT. It was smooth, but no other lead combinations gave any resistance indication no matter the resistance range I had it set in, so I am guessing that in addition to a air temperature sensor I am going to need a throttle position sensor/indicator.

Does the manual give expected resistance outputs for the tps? I haven't found it yet.

Thanks again for all the help! I will keep everyone posted on my progress, but from the looks of things it won't be until next weekend before I can get my hands on these sensors.

 

[ripcuda]

The TPS must be tested plugged in to the harness.. to get its voltage reference from ECU. Because it is directly wired (2 wires) to the port head temperature sensor... the temp sensor's 2 tan/black wires must be disconnected... or will mess with your readings.

So TPS plugged in... port temp sensor unplugged (2 tan/blk wires)... key to ON... now you take your voltage readings. On one wire the volts will start low (idle) and go up (wot)... on the other wire the volts will start high (idle) and go down (wot). It's the low-to-high volts reading you want. 0.2-0.3 volts at idle, ~ 7.46 volts at wot.

The service manual does not mention any sort of ohms test for the TPS.

Cheers!

 

[Tim75]

The TPS must be tested plugged in to the harness.. to get its voltage reference from ECU. Because it is directly wired (2 wires) to the port head temperature sensor... the temp sensor's 2 tan/black wires must be disconnected... or will mess with your readings.

So TPS plugged in... port temp sensor unplugged (2 tan/blk wires)... key to ON... now you take your voltage readings. On one wire the volts will start low (idle) and go up (wot)... on the other wire the volts will start high (idle) and go down (wot). It's the low-to-high volts reading you want. 0.2-0.3 volts at idle, ~ 7.46 volts at wot.

The service manual does not mention any sort of ohms test for the TPS.

Cheers!

Testing tps out of the circuit can tell if it has failed. Think of a volume knob on an old radio. They did wear out. When testing the tps, connect to center and one outer. Rotate tps shaft. Meter reading should transition smoothly. Swap outer wire. Repeat test. Any dropouts or jumping in the reading is indicative of a dead failed tps. Crazy expensive part. If you can find a new OLD STYLE tps (round connector) and are handy with a soldering gun you can have a replacement for much less.

 

[challenger01]

Your issue looks similar to the issue I had 2 summers ago.

I had a “dead spot” from 3,500-4,000+. It would idle fine and run wot without issue but it was a problem in the 3.5-4K range.

My tested as a failed throttle position sensor and yes it was very expensive.

The boat ran like new after the replacement.

Good luck

I have added

 

[jwp]

Just wanted to post an update. $750 for the TPS/TPI and the intake air sensor. Installed them last weekend and took it out for a try. Surprisingly, it planed right out and easily jumped up to 45/50 mph! I cruised around for a few minutes and when I was turning it stumbled and stalled out. Fired right back up and on my I went. A several minutes later it did the same thing, only this time it wouldn't start. Just clicking of the starter and it wouldn't turn over. played with wires and let it rest a few and it fired up and would quickly die. After some inappropriate language and some help getting it back to the dock it fired again and idled. I shut it down checked battery voltage (12.4) and had my daughter turn it over the voltage quickly fell to about 6 volts, so off I went for a new battery. I have the new battery installed and due to the weather haven't had a chance to try it again to verify the fix.

Also, I am having some difficulties with the tpi voltage. I got idle set around 0.25 volts (with the port head sensor disconnected), but when I move the throttle to WOT I was only getting about 5.5 VDC. I am able to manually open the butterflies and it will go to ~7.5 VDC. More adjustments tonight and I found some throttle cable slop that I removed and my peak voltage is up around 6.5 VDC, but when I pull the throttle all the way back it is hovering around .75 to 0.9 VDC and won't go back to 0.25 without giving the throttle a little push on the engine. I checked the alignment of the throttle cam mark to the bushing and it looks good.

My two questions are 1) how do I get the throttle to open up the butterflies completely? Is there anything that I can adjust? and 2) is there something that could be bound up affecting the release of the throttle all the way back to 0.25 VDC or should I just add the slop back into the cable and loose more top end voltage?

Thanks

PS dialing TPI volt is a pain and I found that tightening the screws had quite an impact on the final voltage. I would get the voltage close and work back and forth between the screws tightening the screw first that would drive the voltage in the desired direction. Get them both snug then go in for final torque.

 

[poppie]

Just wanted to post an update. $750 for the TPS/TPI and the intake air sensor. Installed them last weekend and took it out for a try. Surprisingly, it planed right out and easily jumped up to 45/50 mph! I cruised around for a few minutes and when I was turning it stumbled and stalled out. Fired right back up and on my I went. A several minutes later it did the same thing, only this time it wouldn't start. Just clicking of the starter and it wouldn't turn over. played with wires and let it rest a few and it fired up and would quickly die. After some inappropriate language and some help getting it back to the dock it fired again and idled. I shut it down checked battery voltage (12.4) and had my daughter turn it over the voltage quickly fell to about 6 volts, so off I went for a new battery. I have the new battery installed and due to the weather haven't had a chance to try it again to verify the fix.

Also, I am having some difficulties with the tpi voltage. I got idle set around 0.25 volts (with the port head sensor disconnected), but when I move the throttle to WOT I was only getting about 5.5 VDC. I am able to manually open the butterflies and it will go to ~7.5 VDC. More adjustments tonight and I found some throttle cable slop that I removed and my peak voltage is up around 6.5 VDC, but when I pull the throttle all the way back it is hovering around .75 to 0.9 VDC and won't go back to 0.25 without giving the throttle a little push on the engine. I checked the alignment of the throttle cam mark to the bushing and it looks good.

My two questions are 1) how do I get the throttle to open up the butterflies completely? Is there anything that I can adjust? and 2) is there something that could be bound up affecting the release of the throttle all the way back to 0.25 VDC or should I just add the slop back into the cable and loose more top end voltage?

Thanks

PS dialing TPI volt is a pain and I found that tightening the screws had quite an impact on the final voltage. I would get the voltage close and work back and forth between the screws tightening the screw first that would drive the voltage in the desired direction. Get them both snug then go in for final torque.

I had a similar problem with my set up. It turned out the thin little arm that connects the linkage was bent. A little messing with it and I was able to get fully open throttle and full voltage on the TPS

 

[jwp]

Definitely worth a look, but I now have bigger issues! When it died over the weekend and I got it started momentarily, it made a squealing noise. I didn't think much of it at the time, but when I put the new battery in it and started it up again today it squealed again, barely ran and died out within seconds. Tried starting it again and it would just click and not start like the old battery was doing. Pulled the cover and watched the starter engage, but the flywheel would not turn over. I tried it by hand and I could wiggle it a little, but it wouldn't hardly move. I pulled the plugs and it didn't make a difference.

I got under the boat and looked in the jet drive for debris or something clogging it and I didn't find anything. So now I am scratching my wondering if something is seized in the engine or the jet drive.

The sound reminded me of the pull cord on a lawnmower squealing when the bearing is dried out.

Any thoughts on the best approach to check the motor and the drive separately without pulling the motor? Also, at this point would it be in my best interest to have it towed to a boat launch to get it out of my hoist and onto the trailer to work on it?

I didn't take a picture of the plugs, but will the next time I am there, but I don't recall seeing any metal shavings on them.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[Tim75]

Definitely worth a look, but I now have bigger issues! When it died over the weekend and I got it started momentarily, it made a squealing noise. I didn't think much of it at the time, but when I put the new battery in it and started it up again today it squealed again, barely ran and died out within seconds. Tried starting it again and it would just click and not start like the old battery was doing. Pulled the cover and watched the starter engage, but the flywheel would not turn over. I tried it by hand and I could wiggle it a little, but it wouldn't hardly move. I pulled the plugs and it didn't make a difference.

I got under the boat and looked in the jet drive for debris or something clogging it and I didn't find anything. So now I am scratching my wondering if something is seized in the engine or the jet drive.

The sound reminded me of the pull cord on a lawnmower squealing when the bearing is dried out.

Any thoughts on the best approach to check the motor and the drive separately without pulling the motor? Also, at this point would it be in my best interest to have it towed to a boat launch to get it out of my hoist and onto the trailer to work on it?

I didn't take a picture of the plugs, but will the next time I am there, but I don't recall seeing any metal shavings on them.

Thanks again for all the input.

Have you checked all the primary (battery) cables? Positive and Negative. At the engine and at the battery. A tight nut does not guarantee a good connection.

What kind of squeal are you hearing? Mechanical or like a loose belt?

Time for a compression test.

 

[jwp]

Connections are tight, but you are right I didn't check for good voltage/ground at the starter. I will check voltage and resistance when I get back there this weekend. The starter is engaging, but something is preventing the motor from turning over. This is a 2000, so no belt to squeal, but the only thing I can relate it to is a lawnmower pull cord clutch that squeals when running. Not a good sound to hear. I tested compression a week or so ago and they were all in the mid/upper 120's with the throttle closed and the motor cold. I don't know that I can get a compression check right now with the way it is bound up.

 

[cbjustDOOit]

Did you check to see if Oil is mixing with the fuel, worm gear gone?

 

[jwp]

I figure that I will drain the vst and have a look at the fuel to see if oil is mixing with it like it is supposed to be doing. It did have a blue tint to it when I was working on it, but I haven't rechecked since I put it back together with the new TPI. Afraid to look, but hope to get there tomorrow night if the weather cooperates! Upstate NY hasn't had the best boating season so far this summer - if it's not raining, it is white capping!

 

[POPPS]

Sorry,,,long thread,,,have you replaced the stator that also runs your low/hi ignition circuits?

 

[Tim75]

I figure that I will drain the vst and have a look at the fuel to see if oil is mixing with it like it is supposed to be doing. It did have a blue tint to it when I was working on it, but I haven't rechecked since I put it back together with the new TPI. Afraid to look, but hope to get there tomorrow night if the weather cooperates! Upstate NY hasn't had the best boating season so far this summer - if it's not raining, it is white capping!

Time to buy a tool!
Amazon or ebay. Small video camera, about 6mm dia. that connects to your phone or tablet. It will fit into the spark plug holes so you can inspect the cylinder walls. Looking for smooth dull walls. Any silvery deposit is exceedingly bad news. You may need to use a ratchet and socket to turn flywheel.

 

[Pcgayheart]

Hi Everyone,

I am purchased a 2000 seadoo challenger 2000 with the mercury M2 240 EFI in it. I knew when I bought it that it had issues bogging and he couldn't get above 10/15 mph without it bogging out. I brought it home this spring and went to work on the basics.

Checked compression (cold with throttle closed) all running around 125-132 psi (didn't know I was supposed to test WOT).
Knew I had fuel because it would fire right up and idle, so I went to spark. Put a timing light on each plug wire while running and found multiple plugs not firing.
Removed the flywheel and tested the stator which checked out ok and tested the trigger and it was bad, so I bought a new trigger and replaced it. I have spark at all plugs, so I went to the lake to test it. Ran good in the water (it always smokes for the first few minutes - assumed that it is burning the oil up from not firing cylinders), but once I got out of the marina and started accelerating, it did the same thing. It would get up to about 10/15 mph which is somewhere around 3500/4000 RPM and it falls on its face. The engine acts as though it is dying and barely runs until I pull the throttle back down. It goes right back to running decent and it runs along fine at low RPM below about 10 MPH. I felt like I had a fuel starvation problem, so I put it in the hoist and went to work on it.

I have now cleaned every fuel screen, replaced the filter and water separator, replaced all fuel hoses, removed the anti syphon valve and am now drafting fresh premium fuel out of a gas can. The VST has been disassembled and cleaned as well. I removed and flushed every injector with power tune and they all operated with 12 VDC. I put a clear fuel line on the VST outlet with a pressure gauge and see no bubbles and pressure stays in the 30's even under the bog condition, so I now feel that the fuel delivery system to the injectors is not the issue.

I have also replaced the spark plugs with NGK BPZ8HS10 with 0.040" gaps, installed a spark gap tester on each coil and at idle it has great spark out to almost 3/4" gap! Temp sensors in both heads have been tested and I believe they are good.

I am left scratching my head looking for a solution and am running out of things that I can test myself and the marina is too busy to look at it right now. I am planning on testing a few more things today:

Spark gap test at higher throttle to see if I am losing spark there.
I found no signs of a throttle guardian in the helm, so assuming that doesn't apply
I'll probably clean/lube the neutral safety switch in case it is sticking, but that doesn't make sense since I can get to close to 4000 RPM before it bogs
Retest the stator/trigger
Test out the TPS voltage and resistance
Remove the EFI cover and see if I get clean fuel injector pulses on all cylinders
See if I can test the MAP and air temp sensors if I can find it in the manual

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions, I would really appreciate the assistance! Also, I can post pictures/videos of the tests or operation of the boat so you can see it firsthand. Below is a quick video of it bogging down upon acceleration

Thanks

How did you test the stator? Ours was running great after replacing the spark plugs and wires. Then out of the blue the rpms dropped and wouldn't go no faster than an idle speed, no matter the throttle position. Haven't been in the water since.

 

[UKGlenn]

Sounds like a lack of voltage. These engines consume more energy as they rev up and if the charge isn't there the battery alone struggles to provide the power and they bog down and die. Then the battery recovers enough to restart and the same thing happens. Could it be the stator has seized and died completely?

 

[Pcgayheart]

We have changed all the spark plugs and wires. It starts and runs good. But now now coils 4 5 6 isn't firing. And changed trigger