2000 Challenger 2000 240 M2 EFI - Overheat (?), steering adjustment, FINDING SERVICE?

[mgoheen]

Ok, where to start....

I'll start with my current problems, then give some background.

At the end of last season (upstate NY), we got about 1/2 mile out and the alarm went on solid. Turned off the boat, sat for a couple minutes, then started back up. Ran for maybe 30 seconds, then on solid again. Continued this and got back to shore, and pulled the boat for the season. Over the winter, the shop that serviced our boat was sold, and the new owners (another marina) will not service it. NO ONE will service it. I have called at least 15 shops, asked each one for any help, and nothing has panned out. This is looking from the 1000 Islands region (where the boat current is) all the way to Rochester NY (where we live, 3 hours away) and many places in between.

So first off, I'm HAPPY to pay someone to look at this boat and fix it. If anyone knows a place that will work on it (would be great if it were between Rochester and 1000 Islands) I will call them.

That said, maybe I can fix it.

I'm no mechanic, but I have done plenty of puttering.

The only other diagnostic I attempted was simply noting that I didn't see any water coming out of the port water indicator thingy (whatever that thing is called), even when revving up the boat a little at the dock. I know I HAVE seen a stream out that port most of the time, but don't know if it is always supposed to show flow.

Second issue is steering. At full speed (30+) it is basically not possible to turn right -- MOST of the time. Sometimes I can nudge it to starboard a bit. At lower speed (e.g. not on plane) turning right isn't a problem...although likely not as tight as it is to turn left. This makes it a little scary approaching other boats head-on and either playing chicken or slowing down. I ASSUME this is just an adjustment in the steering linkage. If anyone has any pointers on that, I'd love to hear them.

I've seen some postings about people considering some of the older Seadoo jet boats and I second the opinion that although it's a fun boat, unless you plan to do ALL the service yourself or know of a shop that will fix it near you, stay away. Also, this boat has been expensive to own, some of it my fault but not all (e.g. my son took it out and the oil pump died and he tried to get home, blowing a piston and putting a hole in the engine block -- OUR fault, but failed oil pump and later failed control module, as well as various other items, NOT our fault).

 

[Tim75]

Water should be coming out of the pee hole any time the engine rpm is above idle. If not, you may have some kind of bug nest in the hose. That by itself can cause that top piston to melt down. If hot water can't get out, cool water can't get in.

Steering- 20 year old cable probably failed. There is a tube crimped into the housing where it passes thru the wear ring. That tube is not repairable. The cable is not a SeaDoo part. Just a heavy duty control cable. Avail. on ebay. Just need the correct length. About $175. Who will replace it? You will. It's not that hard. Need a 7/8 crowfoot wrench. The rubber bellows- one shift, one steering should have been
replaced every year. Replace shift cable while you are back there.

As with any any jet drive (boat or jet ski), any time you cut the throttle, you lose steering.

Engine blown- Sorry about that. $$$. As you found out, no on will work on our boats, but us. The very reason for this forum.

Why are you sure that the oil pump failed? Could have been other things-- sucked up weeds and blocked the cooling holes in the pump. Or see para. #1 above. on & on....
Kind of irrelevant now.

 

[paulc229]

If your able to get the boat to Canada, border city, I have a great mechanic that has no issue working on them, even let’s you buy the parts and he just charges labor...

 

[darren shumbo]

Call Darren Shumbo at Shumbo Marine and Jetski in Westbrook,Connecticut on the shoreline....860 391 1650....he does all the jet boats and jetskis as long as parts are available...

 

[mgoheen]

Here's an update, for anyone who cares.

After maybe 20 calls with no one willing to look at the boat I had given up and posted my original message. I ended up getting a call back about a week after the initial call from a marina called Pelican Point in Canandaigua NY. The head of the service shop there (Dave) does work on these boats, so I spent last Saturday getting my boat and delivering it to him (5 hours of driving to pick up/drop off).

Sadly, they found that the overheating appears to be related to the gearbox shredding itself. I can't say I really noticed any symptoms of this prior to the overheating, but they found quite a bit of metal fragments in the gearbox oil and believe that this is causing quite a bit of strain/heat and needs replacement. Not only is this part simply not available, but the cost/time for doing this repair is both beyond my ability and pocketbook.

There are other issues with the boat that I also mentioned (steering, plus a couple of other minor issues that Dave pointed out).

My choices now are to simply give the boat to the marina (they will comp me the diagnostic time, couple hundred bucks) or take the boat back, pay them the money and see if anyone want to buy the boat as is. I guess the question is - is that something that is worth doing?

The ENTIRE engine on this boat (as I mentioned) was replaced about 5 years ago, and has pretty low hours of use. I just last year reupholstered the back seats and was planning to do additional seats this year (I have the kit for the remaining parts). And, of course, the trailer is in good shape, tires on that were replaced two years ago.

I'll make a new post just putting this out there, unless someone says "now hold up, I can pop in a new gearbox for $1000", which is not gonna happen...

 

[Dr Honda]

Look on ebay. You can find used boxes for a few hundred USD.

But... if they gears are turning... there's ABSOLUTELY no reason that a worn gear box would over heat your engine. That's just silly. I would simply drain the oil.... flush with Kerosene... blow it out with air (low pressure) and then refill it. It's not a fix... but if the gears aren't dead... it will give you more time.

The cooling water comes from water pressure in the pump nozzle. So... if the boat is moving forward... there is the possibility of having cooling water. BUT... the ports or internal passages could be plugged up. The biggest issue is from people who run in shallow sandy water. You will simply fill the engine with sand... and they over heat. SO... regardless if the engine is new or not... you can plug it quick from bad habits. (Like beaching it)

Finally... the reason you can't turn right is because your steering cable is bad. There is an outer sleeve that supports the cable. When that pops out... the cable will flex, and won't push the nozzle.

Sorry for my late response on this... but hopefully you can find someone to help fix the boat. I hate shops because they will feed you a line of crap to make $$$$. And... needless to say... they are busy now, and just don't want to take on a big job. If you were looking for a shop to fix this in December... everyone would be willing to take it in.

 

[mgoheen]

Well, I retrieved the boat from the shop and have it here at my house. Will be towing up to the cottage and seeing what I can do with it over the next week (on vacation). I'm not super hopeful.

Although the symptoms reported above are what I experienced when I pulled the boat last fall, the mechanic at the shop reported very different symptoms, including loud noises when engaged, difficulties driving the boat at all and enough engine resistance to almost stall the boat. I guess I'll start by looking at the gearbox, once I figure out how that might be accomplished.

We don't have the money to get another boat this year, so apparently I have a new project.

And here I thought I was doing great reupholstering the rear seat...

 

[Tim75]

Well, I retrieved the boat from the shop and have it here at my house. Will be towing up to the cottage and seeing what I can do with it over the next week (on vacation). I'm not super hopeful.

Although the symptoms reported above are what I experienced when I pulled the boat last fall, the mechanic at the shop reported very different symptoms, including loud noises when engaged, difficulties driving the boat at all and enough engine resistance to almost stall the boat. I guess I'll start by looking at the gearbox, once I figure out how that might be accomplished.

We don't have the money to get another boat this year, so apparently I have a new project.

And here I thought I was doing great reupholstering the rear seat...

No oil in the stator could cause some of those issues. The bearings (bushings) are soft and have been known to melt without oil.

If you take off the stator, try to move the shaft on its axis. It should move very little or none.

 

[mgoheen]

I pulled the stator and it looks fine to me. No play to speak of along the axis. Oil that I drained out looked pristine (still bluish). Seems to be in good condition.

The service shop said that there were metal shavings in the gear/transfer box, but I drained that, and although it looked pretty brown and likely needed to be changed, if anything I could only find almost microscopic metal pieces, really too small to see but maybe a little reflective in the sun. I was hoping that the little endoscope I have would fit up through the drain plug, but it's about 1/32" (maybe 1/16") too big to fit. Is there another way in there? My plan now is to just try to flush it with mineral spirits and refill. Any recommendation on HOW to flush it? I can pump the thinner into the oil case, but don't know how to spread it around. Maybe tow the boat around on the trailer on a bumpy road? Is there another way to get in to the gearbox that I can get my endoscope in? Would be nice to look around.

That still leave the original overheating issue, which I will tackle next, but still need some ideas on what to do there. I did notice that the little water bypass intake (I think that's what it is) is a little crimped/bent in the stater housing, but I wouldn't think that would matter much (I'll bend it back).

When I removed the jet nozzle housing, I found it was only attached with two bolts (two missing) and one of those was loose. Nice. I need to order those bolts, so I'll check the parts sheet to see what I need.

The boots on both the steering cable and the gate reverse valve are totally shot. Should I replace these or are they not really "required"? I'll see if THOSE parts are available as well. [Looking back up, Tim said these should be replaced every year...so I guess I'll try to order these. The manual says to get some sort of goop to seal these, but I'm having trouble finding a replacement part for that. Some sort of gasket/o-ring goop that comes in a 16 oz. can with a brush...wish I could remember the name.]

The problem I reported where the boat would not turn right at speeds over, say, 20 MPH (no problem turning at low speed) APPEARS to be buckling of the steering cable. In the pic below you can see how much the cable bends up by the hull end. You can ALSO see wear marks on the hull itself (white area to the left of the bend in the boot around the middle of the page vertically), which says to me that this is very likely the cause. Does this mean the cable is failing or something else:


THAT boot is the GOOD one. The reverse gate boot is literally in pieces. Looking at Doc Honda's reply, it seems that this is a failure of the inner sleeve on the steering cable...so in line with what both Tim a Dr. Honda said.

I'm off to look for parts to order.

Note that the service shop mentioned that the reserve oil tank sensor was bad. I'm wondering is that's the actual failure I noted in the fall -- but it doesn't seem likely. Also, the alarm I heard was the constant on tone...and I thought the oil float warning was the beep-beep-beep alarm? Anyway, I'll buy one of those float switches as well.

 

[Dr Honda]

Even though the boot is on that cable... I can see that the outer sleeve is detached. It happens over time, and the cable just needs replaced. I replaced mine a few years ago for the same reason. When it's not held ridged... it flexes, and can't "Push" the nozzle.

The low oil alarm as I recall is a solid beep. AND, it will trigger limp mode. You can check it with a meter. It's a simple switch. Put a meter on it and look for an Open/Closed on it as you move the float.

To flush the gear box isn't too hard. Just fill the box with spirits, Kerosene or diesel fuel that same way you would with oil. Pump it in the center, and it will over flow to the side. Because it's so thin... you will have to leave the pump hooked up to hold it in. Then, spin the engine. You can do it by hand... or pull all 6 sparkplugs and let the starter do it. I would drain, and flush a couple times. But as I said before... that won't cause the engine to overheat, and the shop was just looking for a reason to get your boat out. FYI... I personally like Diesel because it's an excellent solvent, has low flammability, it's oily, and won't damage the seals.

 

[Tim75]

I pulled the stator and it looks fine to me. No play to speak of along the axis. Oil that I drained out looked pristine (still bluish). Seems to be in good condition.View attachment 49516

The service shop said that there were metal shavings in the gear/transfer box, but I drained that, and although it looked pretty brown and likely needed to be changed, if anything I could only find almost microscopic metal pieces, really too small to see but maybe a little reflective in the sun. I was hoping that the little endoscope I have would fit up through the drain plug, but it's about 1/32" (maybe 1/16") too big to fit. Is there another way in there? My plan now is to just try to flush it with mineral spirits and refill. Any recommendation on HOW to flush it? I can pump the thinner into the oil case, but don't know how to spread it around. Maybe tow the boat around on the trailer on a bumpy road? Is there another way to get in to the gearbox that I can get my endoscope in? Would be nice to look around.

That still leave the original overheating issue, which I will tackle next, but still need some ideas on what to do there. I did notice that the little water bypass intake (I think that's what it is) is a little crimped/bent in the stater housing, but I wouldn't think that would matter much (I'll bend it back).

When I removed the jet nozzle housing, I found it was only attached with two bolts (two missing) and one of those was loose. Nice. I need to order those bolts, so I'll check the parts sheet to see what I need.

The boots on both the steering cable and the gate reverse valve are totally shot. Should I replace these or are they not really "required"? I'll see if THOSE parts are available as well. [Looking back up, Tim said these should be replaced every year...so I guess I'll try to order these. The manual says to get some sort of goop to seal these, but I'm having trouble finding a replacement part for that. Some sort of gasket/o-ring goop that comes in a 16 oz. can with a brush...wish I could remember the name.]

The problem I reported where the boat would not turn right at speeds over, say, 20 MPH (no problem turning at low speed) APPEARS to be buckling of the steering cable. In the pic below you can see how much the cable bends up by the hull end. You can ALSO see wear marks on the hull itself (white area to the left of the bend in the boot around the middle of the page vertically), which says to me that this is very likely the cause. Does this mean the cable is failing or something else:
View attachment 49517

THAT boot is the GOOD one. The reverse gate boot is literally in pieces. Looking at Doc Honda's reply, it seems that this is a failure of the inner sleeve on the steering cable...so in line with what both Tim a Dr. Honda said.

I'm off to look for parts to order.

Note that the service shop mentioned that the reserve oil tank sensor was bad. I'm wondering is that's the actual failure I noted in the fall -- but it doesn't seem likely. Also, the alarm I heard was the constant on tone...and I thought the oil float warning was the beep-beep-beep alarm? Anyway, I'll buy one of those float switches as well.

Remember these cables are not seadoo parts. They are generic control cables avail. on ebay. You just need the correct length.

 

[mgoheen]

I ordered both the steering and figured while in there I'd replace the shift/reverse cable as well. Also ordered the various external bellows (interior ones look good), but still don't know how important they are in practice (mine have obviously been ignored for years).

On a second point...just how many different liquids do you need to work on this boat??? I keep finding new little "droppers" in the manuals saying "Loctite 271" here or "Loctite 242/243" there...but that's just the beginning. Then there's the Teflon 2-4-C lube, the gasket sealing compound (ordered the Johnson equivalent to the super seal part), and there must be several more (Loctite 220?, dielectric grease, others)? My wife now refers to these as "your essential oils". The application of Loctite 271 in many places scares me a bit, as it claims that heat is really needed to break these once tightened/cured...but I've been removing these without any broken bolts...which makes me think they weren't sealed that way.

My shift/throttle interlock is a bit hard to work. It is difficult to shift the boat out of forward (and in sometimes as well) without some serious hanky-panky with the throttle. Is there a (easy) way to adjust this? I pulled the mechanism up to inspect it and it appears to be in pretty good shape overall.

Just how many of these essentials oils are actually needed?

I mentioned using paint thinner to clean out the gearbox, but Tim and/or Dr. Honda said they preferred diesel. I read around a bit and it doesn't appear that thinner is bad...unless you leave it there for a long time...then...maybe. Should I just NOT use it and pick up some diesel?

 

[Dr Honda]

For all the external stuff... I use a silicon based spray oil.

For in the bilge... I use a silicon based "Storage" oil. (hose off everything to stop rust)

I use "Fogging" oil to spray the engine internals for storage.

For thread lockers..... I use "Red" for any internal engine bolts... most other things I use an anti-seize so they dont rot into place.

I use a three-bond product to seam the engine case, and other parts... and not the locktie products.

That's about it other than operating oils. (2-troke oil and gear lube in the pump)

 

[Tim75]

I ordered both the steering and figured while in there I'd replace the shift/reverse cable as well. Also ordered the various external bellows (interior ones look good), but still don't know how important they are in practice (mine have obviously been ignored for years).

On a second point...just how many different liquids do you need to work on this boat??? I keep finding new little "droppers" in the manuals saying "Loctite 271" here or "Loctite 242/243" there...but that's just the beginning. Then there's the Teflon 2-4-C lube, the gasket sealing compound (ordered the Johnson equivalent to the super seal part), and there must be several more (Loctite 220?, dielectric grease, others)? My wife now refers to these as "your essential oils". The application of Loctite 271 in many places scares me a bit, as it claims that heat is really needed to break these once tightened/cured...but I've been removing these without any broken bolts...which makes me think they weren't sealed that way.

My shift/throttle interlock is a bit hard to work. It is difficult to shift the boat out of forward (and in sometimes as well) without some serious hanky-panky with the throttle. Is there a (easy) way to adjust this? I pulled the mechanism up to inspect it and it appears to be in pretty good shape overall.

Just how many of these essentials oils are actually needed?

I mentioned using paint thinner to clean out the gearbox, but Tim and/or Dr. Honda said they preferred diesel. I read around a bit and it doesn't appear that thinner is bad...unless you leave it there for a long time...then...maybe. Should I just NOT use it and pick up some diesel?

Shifter- You can disconnect both cables and check motion then. If it is easy, you have cable problems. Replacing the shift cable will help. You may need to replace the throttle cable, too. About $35. Generic cable.

 

[Hawk111]

I like the part about the back up oil tank sensor. Did not know this existed. Speaking of tones. After taking my boat out for a long weekend recently, I noticed at the end of the trip when I would turn the key to ON, I would hear a quick beep. Is that just the ready “on” beep most boats have. I’m thinking so, but it doesn’t always happen... I think.

Also, that little stream out that back has to always be flowing even in just plain idle. How are you making out with this situation any progress?

 

[jercate]

If your able to get the boat to Canada, border city, I have a great mechanic that has no issue working on them, even let’s you buy the parts and he just charges labor...

Hi Paul, fellow Canadian here. Just going through this thread and saw your comment here on the mechanic who has no issue working on them. You wouldn't be on the west coast would you? I'm looking for someone near Vancouver.

 

[nenikol23]

Shifter- You can disconnect both cables and check motion then. If it is easy, you have cable problems. Replacing the shift cable will help. You may need to replace the throttle cable, too. About $35. Generic cable.

@Tim75 Can you specify where a generic one can be found? Or what the specs are? I am in need of a Shift Cable for my 2000 Challenger, all I can find online is Part no. 204160156 and these go for about $135. Many thanks.

 

[Tim75]

@Tim75 Can you specify where a generic one can be found? Or what the specs are? I am in need of a Shift Cable for my 2000 Challenger, all I can find online is Part no. 204160156 and these go for about $135. Many thanks.

I found mine local for $33 last year. A place like West Marine will be about $50. Once you have the old cable out, you can measure its length.

Sorry- I don't know anything about CA$ conversion.

 

[Coach Q]

after reading this thread, it has helped. I too have issues with mechanics. Now i am looking for the BUD software BRP software so i can marry the computer board to the gauge and diagnose My 2003 Challenger x and my 2008 RTX seadoo PWC. Can anyone point me in the direction of acquiring this software. The guy here charges too much $$$$. Yes I know it isn't free. I can pay. email me if you have any suggestions please.
QVR1906@gmail.com