2000 Challenger 1800 Mercury M2 won't start. Has spark, new plugs

[SeptemberC]

2000 Challenger 1800 Mercury M2 won't start / hit. Stator?

We started by having a surge at idle only. It ran great otherwise. Then we had starting issues. After using starting fluid it started and ran great. Now today it will not start. Even with starting fluid. We have checked that we have spark at every plug. We have replaced all plugs with the NGK. Still won't start. ANY suggestions?

 

[SeptemberC]

We removed the carbs, cleaned and replaced. Primer pump is working. Mechanical pump is working. Enrichment solenoid is working. We have not tested compression yet (waiting on a compression gauge). Still will not hit.

It ran perfectly last weekend.
Any suggestions are appreciated.


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[henryb]

You could check that your fuel enrichment valve is working. You could try pressing the manual button on that valve to drip some extra gas into the carbs (if you have the 210HP carbed engine).

Another trick that I use sometimes is to turn the steering wheel all the way to one side or the other to activate the steering throttle mechanism. It will hold the carb throat flaps open a bit.


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[henryb]

Any chance it might be the fuel/water filter? Since you were suggesting "quick-start" fluid was helping initially, there might be a clog in that filter? Might be worth changing it.


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[SeptemberC]

Spark test results

Passenger side
Top - very weak spark
Middle - hardly any spark
Bottom - very weak spark

Drivers side
Top - very weak spark
We stopped at this point. Assuming that the other 2 will be weak also.
________________________________

Compression test results

Passenger side
Top - 90 exactly
Middle - 90 exactly
Bottom - 90 exactly

Drivers side
Top - 90 exactly
Middle - tick above 90
Bottom - tick above 90

Looks like I need a Stator Assy doesn't it.

 

[henryb]

It seems that you might have nailed it... I'm going thru the same repair... New Stator. Fortunately it is fairly easy job and they aren't too expensive either.

But I think I would like to hear what [MENTION=77252]DRH[/MENTION]onda has to say before laying out cash for parts just to be 100% sure that is it.

One thing I'm a bit concerned about is your compression numbers seem a little low, although they are all the same, which is good.


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[SeptemberC]

Yeah I was hoping for a comment from DrHonda guru. We had it out last weekend and she purred like a kitten EXCEPT for the slight surge at idle and not wanting to start.
Tested the enrichment valve and it was good. We also did the test on the stator and the numbers weren't within range. That is.... If we used the test meter correctly. LOL. I conferenced called in a friend of a friend that's a Mercury mechanic.
It appeared to be getting spark just by looking at the plugs. But since they don't have that tip on them it's hard to tell. We used a regular spark plug and the spark wouldn't even make it to the tip. So we knew that the fire was weak.

Hopefully DrHonda will chime in.


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[Steves23]

Your compression is extremely low. I'd be willing to bet the farm that's your problem assuming the gauge is correct. you're about 35 psi low on all cylinders. but being that they're ALL that low your gauge might just be incorrect

 

[Coastiejoe]

Retest with a different gauge. See what the numbers are.


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[Dr Honda]

Hi guys.

Sorry for the delay. I was on a long camping trip. (needed some down time)



OK... weak spark isn't good. Here's why...

TO get a spark to jump... you have to ionize a path between the source and ground. That path is interrupted by all those pesky "Air" molecules. So... when you put that spark plug in the engine... and compress the air... there's more STUFF in the same volume. SO... it's harder to jump the gap. In turn... that "Weak" spark will simply turn into "No" spark. Personally... I like an in-line tester. That way, you can see if there's a spark, with the plug in the cyl.

But... before replacing the stator... I would simply grab a meter, and check it. (although it seems to be a common issue on a +12 year old 210 engine)

As Steve and Joe eluded to... that compression is very low. Your engine should be closer to 125~135 psi. It's very unlikely that all 6 cyl's dropped the same pressure... but I would get a known good compression gauge and check again. If it is that low... that's where the problem is. Even though it's unlikely... while reading your description... I started thinking that you lost a cyl. So, I have a gut feeling that it may just be time for a rebuild.

 

[SeptemberC]

Come on Doc! I need some of your good MoJo... The compression test results were down because the battery was weak at this point. (We did the compression test the very last thing just out of curiosity) The cold cylinders had also been flooded with fuel which can cause low compression. We did run the troubleshooting test on the stator and the numbers were real low. I'm betting the farm that I'll trickle charge the battery, install the stator and she'll purr like a kitten like she did last weekend.
My local Mercury guy had diagnosed dying coil when I was describing my "surge" issue the weekend before. Guess it was a weakening stator.

The carburetors all looked brand new & the mechanical fuel pump looked brand new when we cracked them open, It had been and is well taken care of. We always keep ethanol treatment in it and use only the quicksilver oil. I'm only saying this because I'm hoping for good luck! lol

You don't know how much I appreciate you guys replying and commenting. Most guys just ignore a chick assuming she's not capable of understanding.

 

[henryb]

I tend to agree with you, that the low compression is probably a gauge error, as all 6 dropping at one time is highly unlikely... and thus a red herring! You reported that you were getting surges but only at idle, that might mean that the low speed coils in the stator were failing. Once they finally died, you couldn't get it to start, also adds up.


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[SeptemberC]

Thanks henryb for your vote of confidence. Now just keep your fingers crossed for me!!! I will keep you guys posted!


S/N 0E374776
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[Dr Honda]

Sure... like I said... all the same, and low... it's PROBABLY a bad gauge. But, the excuse of "Cold and extra fuel in the cyl's" is complete hokum. A cold engine should read almost the same as a warm engine. A few PSI is expected (3~5 psi)... but not a drop of 40 psi. AND... when you put a fluid in... of any kind... that will seal bad rings, and give you a false HIGH reading. (not low)

BUT REGARDLESS... you have a data point that is BAD. SO, let's not ASSUME ANYTHING. Just rule it out with a retest, and a different gauge.


So... let's not chase our tail, and spend $$$ on electrical, until we get a good compression reading. It's very simple... spend the $30 on a gauge with a shrader valve in the adaptor tip, or get a loaner from your local auto parts store... and re-test.

 

[Dr Honda]

I tend to agree with you, that the low compression is probably a gauge error, as all 6 dropping at one time is highly unlikely... and thus a red herring! You reported that you were getting surges but only at idle, that might mean that the low speed coils in the stator were failing. Once they finally died, you couldn't get it to start, also adds up.


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I also agree with this. So, grab a meter, and check the stator coils, and see what you get.



.

 

[SeptemberC]

Happy to report back that the Stator was delivered this morning. (FYI - We used a harmonic balancer puller that we borrowed from Advance Auto Parts to remove the flywheel.)
We installed the new stator (398-9873A39), put everything back together. Said a little prayer and turned the key. She fired up immediately. We let in run for about 10 seconds then turned it off. We then checked the compression again using the same gauge. This time we got readings of 120 in each cylinder. We checked compression with all spark plugs out and safety switch pulled.

Thanks to everyone that helped. Your suggestions and comments are always a welcomed help!



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[travis h]

What should the stator coils read and what leads do i test together? Im having same issue....no spark to any plugs

 

[Dr Honda]

What should the stator coils read and what leads do i test together? Im having same issue....no spark to any plugs

Please start your own thread, and tell us what engine you have.

Thx.