2000 14.5 Sea-Doo Challenger one engine starter won't engage

[LM53]

I have a MY 2000 Challenger and the right engine starts and runs fine the left engine started and ran fine two weeks ago but I went to start up the engines and the left engine I get nothing no 12 V supply at the starter relay. Does the starter button put power to the MPEM and from there send power to the starter relay. Does anyone have a wiring diagram I could see or tell me where I should check my voltages of grounds. I can jump the relay and the engine turns over five.

 

[LM53]

I think I have it narrowed down to a MPEM. When I put it in forward or reverse I get the multiple beeps which means the starter button and wiring to the MPEM is good and it's getting a signal and I ohm tested the yellow with red tracer wire from the MPEM to the starter relay and that checks good. Is there a source out there that repairs the MPEM's.

 

[Waterluvr]

Your MPEM sends system voltage out to the start/stop button on the yellow w/red trace wire, when you press and hold it that voltage is sent to ground and a semiconductor in the module switches power off that circuit and applies it to the starter motor relay to close it and crank.

To test, when lanyard goes on and you get two beeps there should be power and ground at the start/stop button. If not backtrack the yellow w/red trace power wire to the module and see if it's putting out power and verify your ground.

If you have power and ground at the switch take the connections loose and see what you have for continuity in the switch body when you press and hold it.

 

[LM53]

Thanks for the reply waterluvr but isn't the fact that when I put it in either reverse or forward and I push the start button and I get multiple beeps telling me that I'm not in neutral confirming that the button and wiring is giving the MPEM the message to start. I have no 12 V supply coming out of the MPEM to the starter relay.

 

[Waterluvr]

Thanks for the reply waterluvr but isn't the fact that when I put it in either reverse or forward and I push the start button and I get multiple beeps telling me that I'm not in neutral confirming that the button and wiring is giving the MPEM the message to start. I have no 12 V supply coming out of the MPEM to the starter relay.

That tells you the neutral safety switch is working and the module function is good to that point. You still have to test the side that isn't working with the shifter set to neutral to see if the MPEM is sending out power to that start/stop switch. The ground on that circuit is a fixed variable that just needs to be confirmed is there all the time.

It wont switch power to the starter relay until it see's all the above.

 

[LM53]

The side that isn't working when I'm out of neutral I will get multiple beeps that tells me the switch and wiring to the MPEM is getting a signal from the starter button that isn't starting the engine. Wouldn't that confirm that everything on that side of the starter system is working correctly and I have a problem from the MPEM and to the starter solenoid.

 

[Waterluvr]

The side that isn't working when I'm out of neutral I will get multiple beeps that tells me the switch and wiring to the MPEM is getting a signal from the starter button that isn't starting the engine. Wouldn't that confirm that everything on that side of the starter system is working correctly and I have a problem from the MPEM and to the starter solenoid.

The only safe assumption there is the start/stop button has a functional ground. It's your module, if you want to write it off without making some simple tests go ahead but when I run into one like that it comes out of the boat and get's hooked up to an isolated power supply with different dess post, neutral switch, start/stop buttons, beeper, starter relay wires etc. and the very first thing I look for is two beeps to indicate the DESS is unlocking, then voltage tests at the start buttons followed by testing at the relay for power and ground. More often than not when someone brings me an MPEM they think is bad I find the problem somewhere else in the main power or ground cables, MPEM harness or a switch.

These boat modules bring ridiculous money used from the Sanford and Son's of parts houses that peddle them, and they have been through thousands of seasonal climate and heat cycles in bilges over the last 15 to 20 years just like your's and there's no telling how long they may function at this point the circuit boards build resistance internally as time goes on and they aren't any different from a coffee pot or laptop computer.

How many of those do we have still have in use today from the mid to late 90's? It pays to be thorough with these MPEM's and test every function you can before replacing one.

 

[LM53]

I'm sorry to question you I didn't mean to make you mad but I did wire up a momentary switch to the starter solenoid. If I press the switch for the starter solenoid and the start stop button of the boat at the same time the engine starts up and runs fine and when I press the start stop switch it shuts off fine. If you think I still need to check the start stop switch and wiring I will do it but what do you think about my last test does that eliminate everything on the dash side of the MPEM.

 

[Waterluvr]

No worries, you didn't make me mad just trying to share some experience with you. These MPEM's are really voltage sensitive and need a resistance free path to ground to work right and as they age things go south the main cables being full of resistance and module boards, transistors etc. not giving or getting what they need to function.

So, in your original write up there's no voltage at the hot leg to the relay and by segregating some wiring with an inline momentary switch on the hot leg output from the MPEM to the relay you have it when that and the start/stop button is pushed?

That's really good news, module is working as it should but where's the issue in the wiring from there? Pretty short trip from the voltage output wire on the module to the relay, your issue should be right there.

 

[LM53]

My yellow with red tracer wire from the MPEM to the relay ohms out good so I'm thinking the only thing it can be is the MPEM. I did check at the starter button's and they both have battery voltage. Where would be the best place to get the MPEM repaired do you do it I see you're in Indiana that's not too far from me.

 

[Waterluvr]

My yellow with red tracer wire from the MPEM to the relay ohms out good so I'm thinking the only thing it can be is the MPEM. I did check at the starter button's and they both have battery voltage. Where would be the best place to get the MPEM repaired do you do it I see you're in Indiana that's not too far from me.

How did you get power on the relay hot wire from the module by adding a momentary switch, or did I miss something there? If you can get the start/stop switch to talk to the module and it transfers power over to the hot leg of the relay out hot wire it's working.

I get into them to remove and repair bad diodes on the 5 amp circuit that powers the module initially as you can make a pretty firm diagnosis of that particular failure with resistance testing, there's no one I can recommend to get far enough into them to diagnose and repair a faulty semiconductor or transistor I have never seen one repaired to that degree successfully.

I have opened them up to that point in an attempt to fix something that was essentially a large paper weight at that stage anyway and normally find the copper board printing on those circuits has changed color and the amount of resistance between solder joints in the backside of them are a pretty good indicator the circuit itself is dead from to many heat cycles.

 

[LM53]

What I did is unplug the connector at the starter solenoid. I got another pigtail to plug into the starter solenoid I hooked up the ground side the other side I ran to a momentary switch and then put power to that so I could turn over the engine without using the boats electronics. Now when I press the start stop button on the boat at the same time I would hit the starter solenoid to turn the engine over and the boat starts fine. I'm thinking about permanently mounting a momentary switch and wire to the starter solenoid and mount it right next to the start stop switch and just continue using the boat until I find someone that can fix the MPEM or find a good used one.

 

[howie099]

I haven't seen anyone try to fix the dual boat ones. If you can get one new they are like $1500 or so. People resort to setting up 2 single MPEMS like the older boats use to get it to work. I would just use your switch setup for now if you can turn and off the engine safely. Save the money for something else

 

[Coastiejoe]

Does the engine start if, you have the lanyard on and you jump the solenoid?

If so, if you press the STOP button will it turn off?

If not, will it turn off if you pull the lanyard?

 

[Waterluvr]

What I did is unplug the connector at the starter solenoid. I got another pigtail to plug into the starter solenoid I hooked up the ground side the other side I ran to a momentary switch and then put power to that so I could turn over the engine without using the boats electronics. Now when I press the start stop button on the boat at the same time I would hit the starter solenoid to turn the engine over and the boat starts fine. I'm thinking about permanently mounting a momentary switch and wire to the starter solenoid and mount it right next to the start stop switch and just continue using the boat until I find someone that can fix the MPEM or find a good used one.

I see, that explains where the power to the starter relay came from. Curious, do you get anything at all on the power out wire from the module to that relay or is it completely dead at this point? I've rolled the dice a few times on boat modules that belonged to me (I wouldn't attempt it on a customer's MPEM simply due to the risk of creating a short elsewhere) where I had a really low voltage signal that wasn't enough to open the relay but there was some power there.

I heated up my hobby knife blade and worked away enough of the potting compound to get down to where the wire end passes through the board hole ring (it's soldered on the backside of the board from that point where it passes through).

I pre-soldered my iron tip just a little and applied heat to the wire at that juncture where it passes through for a four count. The idea is to try and re-establish the connection itself since you know everything else is working to that point, the risk lies in getting it to hot and damaging the board and or creating a short in something else.

~It's worked for me everytime so far.

 

[LM53]

Everything works normally the start stop switch will still kill the engine the tether still kills the engine everything works and the only thing I did really do is isolate the starter solenoid from the rest of the system and put my own momentary switch on it.
If I ever have a problem with the MPEM as far as ignition I will take it out throw it in the trash and wire me up to MSD boxes one for each motor then put 7200 rev chips in them then get an aftermarket fuse box and wire up the rest the electronics on the boat.