2 Stroke Madness

[Sanddune12]

Need some opinions guys. Bought a 2002 Sportster LE in 2010. My first boat of any kind. I have a summer cottage on an all sand lake in West MI. From the sea wall out to about 75 yards the water is about 3 foot before the ledge drops off. Saw many people with I/O motors have to have their props up to get to deeper water and have to always be mindful of that ledge when running. A jetboat seemed perfect for the way this small lake is. I can tube, ski or just run anywhere on the lake and not have to worry about the depth...and, no rocks to suck in! So, when my boat is running properly, it is a perfect combo. Unfortunately, it seems as tho routinely something needs fixed on the boat. Are 2 strokes ALWAYS this finicky? I replaced the 951 motor after one year (have since learned I should have done a compression test before I bought it). I have replaced the wear ring, impeller, starter, solenoid, drive shaft, carbon seal... When it is running, it runs great, ZERO cavitation now! But it seems like it is only a matter of time before something else happens, usually when on vacation and my kids just want to be on the water! I have learned A TON from this forum, have spent hours reading posts, and appreciate the help and responses I have received. I do all of the work myself and do all the little regular maintenance things that I have learned from this forum. I realize that all boats need their own brand a regular maintenance, I actually like most of it, it is fun tinkering around and I have learned so much about 2 strokes since 2010 it is crazy. But when it is time to just boat, I would like to do that with less complication. Maybe I/O boats are complicated as well. It just seems like my friends with I/O boats do not have near the complications my 2 stroke does??? My boat looks sweet, it is in great shape, it is light and easy to haul from Ohio to MI. But I am seriously considering getting out of the jetboat world. I really don't want to but my frustration is mounting. So many of you guys have way more knowledge and experience than I do, and I don't want to make a poor decision. I know this is a lot, somewhat of a rant of sorts (sorry), as I am on vacation as we speak, with my boat on a trailer because some water penetrated my jet pump oil and I am waiting for the gasket maker and thread sealer to cure before I get back in the water. Any opinions out there on 2 stoke vs. 4 TEC vs I/O??? Thanks!

 

[Dr Honda]

First........


PLEASE, use proper writing techniques. It's very hard to read one long paragraph. I'm not trying to be harsh... but since all we have is the written word here... it's easier to help when we don't have to fight the format.



OK..... NOW....


No... 2-stokes aren't (in general) problematic. It's just that your boat is now +13 years old, and it's going to need some love. Preventative maintenance is going to be your friend. Also... you bought a used boat. So, you are now fixing all the stuff that the last owner left go.


I've known a lot of guys who buy older I/O's, and they have problems too.

1) Bad water pump(s).
2) Bad bellows. (that's fun because it can sink the boat)
3) Water in the lower unit. (gears eat themselves)
4) Bad bearings in the I/O
5) Bad drive shafts or U-joins in the I/O
6) Cracked engines, from poor winterizing.
7) bad ignition from being wet.
8) Bad carbs. (old fuel or being wet)

And so on...........



Boats (in general) are pits to throw money at. But once fixed... they are great. My current toys have been 100% reliable, and I haven't touched them, other than normal maintenance. AND... they haven't left me stranded. But then again... all my current toys were bought broken (cheap) and I fixed them. SO... that means... they were disassembled, and EVERYTHING that was wrong, was fixed.




With that all said... if you want a 100% reliable boat... buy a brand new boat, with a full warranty.

 

[Sanddune12]

Dr. Honda,thank you for taking the time to respond, I appreciate it! Sorry for the lousy format, I was pouting like a little school girl this morning. My apologies.

 

[Chilmonty]

Dr. Honda is exactly right! My first was a used GTI LE 2 stroke and I didn't know squat about it.

I managed to flood the thing (ALWAYS check drain plugs) and found this site to try to rescue it.

Since having a good mechanic clean the carbs really well a few years ago, and A LOT of reading here,
I have had no issues and I road it all last weekend and it runs 45mph like a top!

I give it proper maintenance, use the CORRECT oil, run no ethanol gas, flush and clean after each use,
and use Stabil and winterizing every year!

Also, will probably get a replacement seat cover as a winter project this year.

This site is gold for seadoo owners, you just have to put in time my friend! :thumbsup:

 

[Sanddune12]

Thanks for response, Chilmonty, appreciate it!

 

[ialonso]

With that all said... if you want a 100% reliable boat... buy a brand new boat, with a full warranty.

I have a sincere appreciation and great respect for the word of Dr Honda, and it is usually gospel to me, but allow me to humbly disagree only with this sentence.

Boat assembly relies in significant part on manual labor, and many have issues even when purchased brand-new. My experience is that getting warranty work on boats is not like on a car, and the turn around is usually measured in weeks, and not days. and that in general, something comes up that requires service and you are pissed at the dealer because it breaks on July 3rd, and you get your boa back in September. When I have had to pay for repairs and independent shops, I feel I always get better service than my friends with new boats get from Warranty service....
It is because of this that I consider a brand new boat not a good thing for me. I value my time very much, and the price of new + value of warranty to me is much less than the value of the old boat+knowing I can PAY for quick repair and not feel ripped-off by slow warranty service.

Now that I know my boat inside and out, it is rare that an outing is aborted because of a mechanical issue, and when there is one, I have already stocked spares and have the needed tools to repair the SAME day in most cases... You can't get there even with new boat under warranty (I guess you can fix yourself under warranty, but you may not want to pay for a repair/parts when your warranty is already supposed to fix it.)

My Sportster 1800 has been mostly reliable, but the change over to 10% alcohol fuel really messed me up a few years ago until I figured that out. I do tinker with it often and I do keep up with the maintenance.

I don't have the answer on how to get a fully reliable boat, but if you are tempted to "buy" what seems to be a fully reliable boat, look at the simplicity of the design and your ability to repair/speed of turn around/serviceability by many. My father in law liked to throw money at issues like this and having access to serious cash, ended up with a Boston Whaler with 2x78hp Heavy Duty pull-start yamaha OB, as his answer, having passed by 50+ft dual diesels, and everything in between. ( They still make the outboards he used for commercial use, but not available in the US due to EPA regs. http://www.imemsa.com.mx/m-enduro2t/75hp.html) You can buy total reliability if you build it from the ground up, but it means less frills.)

I think you are already fully invested in time and a lot of knowledge. Give it time after you have made that investment for it to pay off. The stuff you have repaired well will take a LONG time to break again. May I suggest stashing spark plugs, a wear ring, pump cone o-rings, pump oil, a spare starter and an exhaust pipe gasket? (If you want to go all out, also stash an exhaust pipe and a carb set, don't judge. )

Good Luck!

 

[Dr Honda]

I have a sincere appreciation and great respect for the word of Dr Honda, and it is usually gospel to me, but allow me to humbly disagree only with this sentence.

Boat assembly relies in significant part on manual labor, and many have issues even when purchased brand-new. My experience is that getting warranty work on boats is not like on a car, and the turn around is usually measured in weeks, and not days. and that in general, something comes up that requires service and you are pissed at the dealer because it breaks on July 3rd, and you get your boa back in September. When I have had to pay for repairs and independent shops, I feel I always get better service than my friends with new boats get from Warranty service....
It is because of this that I consider a brand new boat not a good thing for me. I value my time very much, and the price of new + value of warranty to me is much less than the value of the old boat+knowing I can PAY for quick repair and not feel ripped-off by slow warranty service.

Now that I know my boat inside and out, it is rare that an outing is aborted because of a mechanical issue, and when there is one, I have already stocked spares and have the needed tools to repair the SAME day in most cases... You can't get there even with new boat under warranty (I guess you can fix yourself under warranty, but you may not want to pay for a repair/parts when your warranty is already supposed to fix it.)

My Sportster 1800 has been mostly reliable, but the change over to 10% alcohol fuel really messed me up a few years ago until I figured that out. I do tinker with it often and I do keep up with the maintenance.

I don't have the answer on how to get a fully reliable boat, but if you are tempted to "buy" what seems to be a fully reliable boat, look at the simplicity of the design and your ability to repair/speed of turn around/serviceability by many. My father in law liked to throw money at issues like this and having access to serious cash, ended up with a Boston Whaler with 2x78hp Heavy Duty pull-start yamaha OB, as his answer, having passed by 50+ft dual diesels, and everything in between. ( They still make the outboards he used for commercial use, but not available in the US due to EPA regs. http://www.imemsa.com.mx/m-enduro2t/75hp.html) You can buy total reliability if you build it from the ground up, but it means less frills.)

I think you are already fully invested in time and a lot of knowledge. Give it time after you have made that investment for it to pay off. The stuff you have repaired well will take a LONG time to break again. May I suggest stashing spark plugs, a wear ring, pump cone o-rings, pump oil, a spare starter and an exhaust pipe gasket? (If you want to go all out, also stash an exhaust pipe and a carb set, don't judge. )

Good Luck!

How dare you say anything opposing me !!!!


YOU'ER BANED !!!! LOL :cheers:


Sorry... couldn't resist.



OK... sure... you are right. New boats can have problems too. But, in those cases... if it's not user induced... it will be covered by a warranty. And, most importantly... I don't have to deal with the whiners, coming here, and posting. (LOL)

To be very honest... it was a statement to be used for it's "Shock Factor."

You have to understand... every year... we get people who come in, and ask a few questions, and then disappear. Also... we get questions like the one above, and it's really from one-sided, or poor observation. OR... friends saying... "you should buy an XXXXX, because it's better than XXXXX." (ie, Ford vs. Chevy debate)


Also... every year, we see people buying PWC or boats that look very nice... but they are +10 years old, and the new owner expects it to be... well... "New". At that point, we hear a lot of whining because there are issues. (And those people generally aren't willing to work on it them selves) To be 100% honest... noting upsets me more than when I spend a few days helping someone track down a problem... and then they just send it to the shop. I don't get paid for being here... so why should I diagnose a problem for another shop??


OK, I'm not saying Sanddune12 is whining about anything (he had a valid question)... but it's a path that could happen if we don't get an opinion changed. Because of that... all my original post is true... and... a little "To the Point". And to some, that may seen rough.



I also agree that a new boat isn't for me... and a boat that I have personally gone though, is going to be more reliable. I guess that's 2 fold. The real issue is... when I get a brand-new toy (motorcycle, boat, etc) I have a tendency of letting maintenance get lax'ed. When I have an older toy that I've restored... then I have a tendency of keeping my eye's on things. And in turn... the older toy becomes "more reliable" since I find issues before they arise.


That's my story... and I'm sticking to it.

 

[LouDoo]

I've owned boats most of my life and I can say with full certainty that "there is no such thing as a fully reliable boat". Like most or probably all things mechanical boats are not 100% reliable. Then factor in that mechanics and water don't mix you have multiplied the problem. Anything on the water requires maintenance, mechanical or not, even paddlecraft.

Lou

 

[ialonso]

I've owned boats most of my life and I can say with full certainty that "there is no such thing as a fully reliable boat". Like most or probably all things mechanical boats are not 100% reliable. Then factor in that mechanics and water don't mix you have multiplied the problem. Anything on the water requires maintenance, mechanical or not, even paddlecraft.

Lou

Lou, You are totally correct, and I totally stepped on it.

I should have translated my brain thought to say...build an "extremely reliable" or "very" reliable boat,leaving room for Murphy to appear. I agree there is no "fully" reliable boat in the water, whatever that means.

 

[ialonso]

And to Dr Honda, thank you for your words, I understand now how you meant it as a shock factor. I was afraid the OP might go a buy something brand new thinking it would be foolproof and still might end up dealing with the fall out. My in-law with a fresh 20ft I/O just replaced the battery switch on his own to prevent the hassle of dealing with warranty work. (Strange failure, but would have been 2-3 weeks without a boat for him) it would have been the third time he goes in for a simple item. Did I say I hate relying on a paid for warranty and wasting my time?

Good Luck to the OP, on your way to a reliable boat.

 

[Dr Honda]

....... My in-law with a fresh 20ft I/O just replaced the battery switch on his own to prevent the hassle of dealing with warranty work. ...........

I'm the same way.

I just dropped $13k on a new Kubota tractor, and there was a small hydro oil leak. Well... from where it was... I could tell it was under the floor pan, and close to the FEL valve. (Front end loader)

So... I was in the garage, with a 3 day old tractor, with almost all the sheet metal off. The wife came down and said... "Just call the dealer, and have them fix it." Then I said.... "Why would I want the same mechanic fixing a problem, when he was the guy who put the valve in there, in the first place??"

 

[Sanddune12]

It's been good for me to hear all of these thoughts and opinions. Thanks!

The fact now is that I have learned a lot about my boat, am able to diagnose some problems, and fix many of the problems myself (most of which I owe to this forum). If I go buy another type of boat (4 tec or I/O) I am starting from scratch in terms of knowledge.

With all of the things that I have replaced, and with regular maintenance, I should be getting pretty close to a more reliable boat and more trouble free time on the water.

So thanks for all the time you guys put into sharing your knowledge. I find myself reading posts for hours, especially in the dead of winter. The more I know, the better!

 

[Dr Honda]

Glad we could help.

If you have anymore issues... just yell.