1997 Speedster twin 717 no starboard spark HELP!

[Speedster SeaDoer]

It was running great and then sputtered a couple of times but then ran fine again. I slowed down to idle and the starboard motor died. I didn't think much of it and tried to start it back up with no luck. I used the port moter to get back and trailered it. I pulled the spark plugs, did a spark test and no spark on the bad starboard side. I did same spark test on the good port side and had spark. On the bad starboard side I disconnected the one small wire (black with an alternating red & green line) on the back of the ignition coil, put a circuit tester light on the wire, pressed the start button, and no light! I did the same thing to the wire to the port side coil (black with a red line) and test light came on when I pressed start button. PLEASE help me figure out what part is bad? I am good with my hands and can break down anything, but as you can probably tell I'm no mechanic or electrician, so please be as descriptive as possible. I do have a multimeter but will need detail on exactly how and where to use it- if possible a picture of the electrical route of the parts before the starter relay that could be bad may help. I do have a mechanic friend I can get to come check it out if it's a lot that goes over my head THANKS!

 

[ronmold]

Sounds like the ignition generating coil has opened up, I've had the same symptoms. It's behind the flywheel that needs to be removed to gain access to it which is nearly impossible without removing the engine, although I've done it twice. Check that black/red/green wire to ground with a meter, it should show some resistance to ground then compare it to the other good motor. And make sure there's solid continuity from the end of that wire in the brain box to the engine side of the connector at the engine.

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Sounds like the ignition generating coil has opened up, I've had the same symptoms. It's behind the flywheel that needs to be removed to gain access to it which is nearly impossible without removing the engine, although I've done it twice. Check that black/red/green wire to ground with a meter, it should show some resistance to ground then compare it to the other good motor. And make sure there's solid continuity from the end of that wire in the brain box to the engine side of the connector at the engine.

Ronmold- thanks for your reply. Are you talking about the 4 wires on the plug that go down to the stator/magneto/generator (not sure what it's called)? On that plug I have a Yellow, Yellow/with Black line, Black, and Black with Red line. I don't see a black/red/green. I looked at the service manual and it says to test the Battery Charging Coil the resistance on the Yellow and Yellow/Black wires is .05 - .6 Ohm. I got .5 on mine. Then it says to test the Generating Coil the resistance on the Black and Red/Blue is 40 - 76 Ohm. I don't have a Red/Blue. My only other color I have is Black/Red. Is this because the service manual is using that "four-pin magneto harness adaptor (P/N 295 000 131)"? I tested those 2 wires (Black and Black/Red) and I don't get anything at all- meter doesn't move at all. Does this mean my Generating Coil has "opened up" as you said? Does this mean I need to replace the magneto (P/N JM2119ST188CK)? THANKS!

 

[ronmold]

Yes it sounds like the coil is open. I can't find a simple diagram of the stator wiring but I believe you're right about the generating coil not connected to ground but it uses both black/(some color) wires to deliver the ign. pulse. Compare with the other motor black wires. The generating coil has very thin wires inside as opposed to the robust wire wound around the charging coils and heat & vibration will eventually cause them to open. Get a new OEM part, 410915200 not used or after market. If you mark the stator plate's position carefully before removing and replace just the coil, you should not have to check/adjust the Ign. timing, a procedure you really want to avoid. Time to pull that motor

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Ronmold, The stator did test bad for sure! The black and blk/red wires had nothing on the multimeter when the same wires on the other motor registered. WITHOUT pulling the motor I have managed to pull the flywheel thanks to Harbor Freight's "2 in. Mirror with Flexible Shaft" item# 97217 for $5.99 and "Pittsburg Automotive Bolt-type Wheel Puller Set" item# 62620 for $15.99 (minus the 20% off coupon of course!), but because the big center pressure screw with the set was too long (5") I had to go to a specialty bolt company and get a M18 x 1.5mm bolt that was only 2 3/4" long. I also managed to pull the bad stator out. And oh yeah, THANKS SOOOO MUCH for the tip to mark the stator plate position before pulling it. That's gonna save me! I have the 3 bolts in the new stator and it's positioned on the exacts marks. But here's my problem now. I can't get the new stator 4 wires through the housing and that damn round black plug. I tried to unscrew that black cap and it want come loose, so it may not unscrew. I tried to push each wire up through the center rubber piece, but that sure as hell wasn't working. Then I tried to push the whole center rubber piece into the housing and out of the round black cap and it started to tear up, so I stopped to message you. See the attached picture of the piece I'm trying to get the 4 stator wires through. Please message me some more of your magic!

 

[ronmold]

Just carefully drill the center out and fill it with silicon sealer once wires are through. Do you have a new 4-pin connector or will you solder on the old one?

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Got it! The black cap actually did unscrew. I used a big slip joint plier which gashed up the plastic cap a bit but it finally broke loose. Once it unscrewed the rubber center piece lifted right out and I was able to slide the wires out one at a time. The new stator came with everything- a new plug and plug center piece and 4 new pins that clamped on (no solder needed). I used my same gray plug and orange center piece that holds the 4 pins into place inside the plug. So for anyone tackling this project as long as you get the 4 pins with the stator that's all you need. After working in engine compartment upside down and looking backwards through a 2" mirror I was able to put a new stator / magneto in myself! Chest is a little sore from all my weight on it on the back of the seats for hours but it was all worth it b/c I didn't have to pull the motor. It has spark again and fired right up! A HUGE thank you to Seadoo Forum and especially Ronmold for helping me through it! I'm back SeaDooing again!!! Attached is how I felt when it fired up

 

[ronmold]

Excellent! You're now one of only a handful of people that would attempt and complete this procedure. I made a frame that suspended me over the engine to get at those tough bolts and yes the old sternum gets a bit tender. What I learned? Handy magnetic core sockets are worthless on SS bolts

 

[ronmold]

Have you had any problem with the oil tank fittings leaking?

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

No problem with oil tank leaking.
But for all your help I have to share the biggest boat tip EVER that I learned this weekend. My old 1997 Speedster had 23 yrs of brown lake scum on the bottom of it and I have tried EVERYTHING for several yrs I've had it. I even tried engine degreaser and nothing works so I quit trying. So I Google some stuff and there is so much on YouTube about Lysol TOLIET BOWL CLEANER!!! I thought there is no way it's gonna work compared to all the other powerful crap I tried but I was at Walmart to get the buffer pads to wax it and figured screw it I'll try it bc it was just $1.98. CHECK THIS CRAP OUT!!!! I didn't even have to scrub!!! I just put it in a spray bottle sprayed it on and wiped it around with a bristle brush and let it sit. The scum just EVAPORATED!!! DON'T EVER DOUBT THE POWER OF CHEMISTRY!!!!!!!! Ckeck out this picture...

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Ronmold you won't believe this! I got it out on the lake today for the first time after changing the stator to test it before selling it. It cranked right up, I got it up to 4 or 5k RPMs, it plained out for about 30 seconds, and the same starboard motor DIED! It didn't restart, so thanks to the good ol port motor I got it back on the trailer. First thing I did was test the spark and there was none. I just knew I must have gotten a bad stator or there must be something else that made 2 stators go out. I then tested the stator with my multimeter and it test good!!! I need your help again. Now what could it be and remember I'm not a mechanic so layman terms please?

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Or anyone else have an idea!?!?

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

So now get this! To test out if it's a bad coil or not I switched the single wire on the back of the coil and put the spark plug wires from the good port side to the bad starboard side and it had spark so obviously I have a bad starboard coil- Right!?!? I switched them back and confirmed the good port motor still had spark again and that I didn't screw anything up and it did have spark. I was about to climb out the boat and go buy a coil but figured I might as well press the starboard start button one more time. I did and there was SPARK! I haven't had a chance to get it on the water and see if it's just gonna die again once getting up to speed. I'll let you know when I do. But what in the world would cause this intermittent spark issue?

 

[ronmold]

Starboard coil opens up when warm, cools off and works again, rare but it happens. Heat it up with a blow dryer and it will likely fail.

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

Ronmold, Are you referring to the ignition generating coil in the stator that I just replaced opening up again? Did I get a bad stator or is something else causing it to open again?
Or are you talking about the ignition coil which is in the big electrical box? If the coil in electric box does that mean it needs to be replaced because it will continue to happen?
Thanks so much for your experienced advice!

 

[ronmold]

Ign. coil in box

 

[Speedster SeaDoer]

OK Ronmold I need you help or anyone that can tell me what's going on. I got it back on the water and both motors started right up. I got up to about 3,500 rpm and planed out for about 30 seconds and the starboard motor died again. I did some testing and thank goodness the stator/magneto/generator tested good so I don't have to go back into the motor, I hope! Per our last message I thought it would be the ignition coil in the big electical box, but I watched a video and it said to test the one wire going into the ignition coil to see if the coil is getting power. I tested the port side first and the light came on so the port ignition coil is getting power. I then tested the starboard side using the same ground and no light! The starboard side ignition coil is NOT getting power. I have tried reading other forums and watching other videos, but can't find what to test or do now. The other part in the big electrical box next to the ignition coil is the starter relay so I watched a video of how to test the starter relay which I think some people also call the solenoid. They were only getting a click when they tried to start it and then they put a screwdriver between the starter relay posts and it starts. My starboard motor is trying to start already but just not getting spark, so I'm pretty sure that means my starter relay is good. What other part could it be and how do I test it (descriptive layman's terms please- remember even though I replaced the stator still in the motor upside down and backwards through a 2" mirror I'm no mechanic)? THANKS for your help AGAIN!

 

[ronmold]

How many wires go to the coil? I can't remember if it gets 12v+ and a trigger ground or 1 wire that gets a 12v + pulse to fire the plug. if a 2 wire setup you could move the + wire from port coil and see if starboard fires up. Issue could be fuse, poor connection or MPEM. Try using a meter instead of a test light. A few volts would show on a meter but not light up a test light. If you get just a few volts then the electronic circuit that supplies + power to the coil is defective anymore than likely resides in the MPEM.