1997 GTX revival - not starting

[ToddinTO]

I have owned many boats over the years, but new to PWCs, yes, I know this is a long post, but want to give the forum some history on the Seadoo. I am at a loss as to where to go from here, ski has fuel, compression, spark but engine will not run . . .
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We rented a few PWCs last summer and had a blast. We already have a Seadoo Utopia, but riding a PWC is a much different experience.

Not knowing how much a PWC may be used over the summer, I did not want to spend 10-20K on a new, recent model, I searched for an older model, not shying away from any TLC that may be required before use. I have many years of experience repairing all types of engines and watercraft.

I found a 1997 Seadoo GTX, seemed perfect, low center of buoyancy, 3 seater, reverse, very difficult to flip, can pull tubers/skiers, has the Rotax 787 engine (some say it is the best engine Rotax ever made), and 190 hours on the unit, so great for my daughters and wife to use as well. Owner told me it was running last fall and had been winterized, but did not want to start it, (as I was looking at in February, no chance of taking it on the water or run a hose) . . . . so, I took the chance and bought it and a trailer for a good price and started to make a list of items to make it a reliable.

What has been done (all while sitting on the trailer, not been in the water yet);

• Got a copy of the service manual for the model year, and had a good read of the doc, and references for the Rotax 800/787, made up my list of things to review,
• Checked compression, all good, 165 PSI both cylinders, after cranking for 10 secs,
• Changed out all the Tempo grey fuel lines with new rubber ones, and new clamps,
• Changed fuel filter and O ring,
• Removed and cleaned the fuel selector,
• Repaired fuel gauge, common issue, fuse had failed, replaced fuse, reports OK now,
• Alarm/beeper nonfunctional, replaced,
• Rebuilt carbs, with non OEM Mikuni kits (80 USD for set, not cheapies) , new needle valves and seats, pop off set to 28 PSI on PTO carb, 24 PSI on mag carb, all orifices cleaned with carb cleaner and blown out, no blockages found in any of the passages, even the in carb filters did not seem to bad,
• Idle screw set to 1 turn, high set to 1/2 turn,
• Replaced oil injection lines from pump to carb with new tubing,
• Attempted to start, no spark with NEW plugs @ .020" gap
• Battery fully charged, 13v not cranking, 12.5v cranking,
• Checked each spark plug wire (removed boots) and had zero ohm reading from coil to end, seems good,
• Trimmed 1/2" of wire from both ends of wire, reinstalled boots, still no spark,
• Checked coil, 18K ohm on high side, 1/2 ohm on low side, seemed to spec and OK,
• Cleaned all connections inside of rear electrical box,
• No signal on wire from MPEM to coil (white wire) while cranking,
• Resistance from rear box to MPEM on white wire was 0 ohms,
• All fuses check out OK, in rear box and MPEM, using multimeter, not just visually,
• MPEM box is really clean, no signs of water penetration what so ever,
• Do receive two beeps when the fob is installed on post, seems that MPEM is OK,
• Checked resistance on pickup coil from mag, 280 ohms, seemed within spec,
• Stator showed open circuit on two of three coils,
• Detected no AC pulses from pickup coil when cranking,
• Pulled mag cover off from front of engine, expecting to see a broken pickup mount . . . . but . . . .

• One of six bolts for mag on flywheel was fully out of the flywheel, the other 5 were sheared off and mag was stuck to stator, and all the wires on the stator were mangled, hence mag not turning, with flywheel, and no pulse being generated on the pickup, no signal to MPEM, so no signal on white wire to the coil, and no spark at all on HV side!!!!!!!

• Purchased a used flywheel/magneto assembly (so I would not need to be so concerned about timing and alignment between the magneto and flywheel), removed old flywheel and replaced with complete assembly,
• Purchased used stator/pickup, but pickup was bad so reused the original pickup coil as it was good,
• Completely cleaned out mag cover and inside of case completely of metal fragments, reassembled mag cover,
• Removed ALL fuel from tank and put in new 91 octane fuel (and some Seafoam too),
• Cranking engine, now had spark on both plugs!!!!! But seems like a weak spark . . . . . .,
• Cranking for 15 secs, seems to want to start, odd time it will fire one cylinder, but not “run”, with and without the choke,
• Plugs seem somewhat wet, but not "dripping",
• Removed both plugs, open throttle full and cranked engine for 10 sec periods nothing came out of the plugs (though it could be carb cleaner, fuel lines dry etc.) but no change,
• Put in teaspoon of fuel mix to each cylinder, was able to get it to run for about 10-15 secs, could rev it OK, turned it off with the start/stop switch, it was idling at 1400RPM,
• Have not been able to start it since, even after putting some more fuel in the cylinders, and there seemed to be enough fuel in there already,
• Received/replaced ignition coil, and plug wires, trying to get a stronger spark, no change,
• New plug wires were too short, so used original plug wires with new coil,
• Removed carbs again, and checked pop off pressures, but did not re-adjust, fuel was definitely present in the supply and return lines,
• Tried starting with idle screw at 0 to 2 turns with 1/4 turn increments, no change, still will not start, did not change the high setting as that only takes effect at ¾ full,
• Shut off fuel, removed plugs and cranked engine for 3 x 15 set periods, with throttle fully open,
• Removed the red wire from rectifier to MPEM, in case the rec was damaged with the old stator, putting noisy AC on the DC lines, affecting MPEM, spark, etc., no change, still won't start,
• Received rebuild kits for RAVE valves, cleaned and reassembled, really dirty, but no change, engine still will not start,
• Bought a new battery, and fully charged it, as I do not know the age of existing one, still would not start,
• Vent line is OK to fuel tank, no vacuum in the fuel tank,

What to check next . . . . .

• Could the spark plug boots be a problem as there is a resistor in them, not generating a strong enough spark, is any spark good enough?
• Could it be the pop-off pressure, should it be on the higher end of the spec, rather than the lower?
• Have not tried connecting reserve line directly to the fuel pump (bypassing selector and a few feet of line) is this worthwhile to try?
• Is it possible that the cylinders are getting too much fuel, so that it will not fire, is this a thing?
• Since it ran once for the 10-15 seconds before I shut it off, that could not have been on 1/2 teaspoon or so of gas, could it, it would had to have been pulling in gas through the carbs, wouldn't it, this would imply there is not a timing issue, correct?
• Should I get some genuine Mikuni carb kits and do the rebuild again, what is so wrong with the non-Mikuni kits, I see other threads that recommend never to use non Mikuni kits?

Thank you for taking the time to read and offer any suggestions . . . .

 

[mikidymac]

First drain the tank and get rid of the Seafoam. It does not belong in any seadoo and will remove the lubrication from the internal engine parts.

Your problem is the aftermarket carb kits.

You have to order the "back to stock" kits from OSD seadoo. You also need to replace the fuel selector, they are $25 from OSD also. You can't clean them as the rubber parts inside go bad and cleaning them makes it even worse.

Until you do this nothing is going to help.

 

[ToddinTO]

Wow, thanks for the fast response!

OK, lesson learned, so only the genuine Mikuni carb kits will do !!!!

The selector passes fuel just fine, tested it before it was reinstalled, but for the $25, I will just replace it . . . ( i removed the rubber insert before cleaning as to not have the carb cleaner dissolve anything )

 

[mikidymac]

It isn't the fuel that is the issue, the old selectors suck air and if your sucking air your carbs aren't pulling fuel.
Yes, it's the aftermarket carb kits.

This will help a lot also...Carb Rebuild Thread.

 

[ToddinTO]

Thanks Mikidymac for the suggestions, still having starting issues, after the following;

• purchased and installed the genuine Mikuni carb kits, including needles and seats,
• set pop off pressure to 38 and 36 PSI, had to use the new springs, original springs would not allow any pressure higher than mid teens,
• checked when the carbs were assembled and they would hold pressure of 10 PSI for 10 min or more,
• while the carbs were off, pulled off the Rotary Valve cover and checked the timing/position of the the valve, was at 147 degrees with mag piston at TDC, turned over the engine for an entire rev, backlash was about 1 degree over the entire rotation,
• got a new fuel selector valve and changed the original out,
• filled the tank with new 91 octane gas,
• put in a new set of plugs (again),

Finally it started!!! Ran for min or more, allowed me to set the idle to just around 3k,
hooked up the hose and after turning it on, found that the exhaust pipe was leaking at one of the welch plugs,

So..... I took it to the nearby Seadoo dealer to have leak repaired, requested they perform a pre-season check and double check the carb settings . . . .

Dealer said they fixed the leak (welds look really good), and did a pre-season check and stated it ran quite well, reported 150 PSI on each cylinder on the work order, checked carbs and stated they were set to spec,

I brought it home, thought I would start it before took it to the lake, it would not start, and reported 12v low on gauge, dealer had left the battery connected for the two weeks it was in their possession,

Put battery on the charger, when it was fully charged, took it to the lake and dropped it in . . . .

Cranked well, but would not start . . . . just the odd backfire

Back home, out of the water, would not start, just cranked, tried new battery, no go.

If the plugs are removed and really dried out, no fuel on them, it will fire up for maybe a sec or so, few revs but nothing more, regardless of choke position (open or closed).

Removed the plugs, grounded the leads on the rear elec box, cranked the engine, throttle fully open,
fuel does not spray out of plug holes, but putting a rag over the hole will definitely have fuel on it,
checked rotary valve again, still is good,
dumped the fuel out of the filter cup, after cranking for about 20 secs it is full again,

What has NOT been done and wondering if this could be the issue;

• spark plug boots/caps, are original, could those lead to weak spark,
• the spark plug wires check out OK, and as they have been trimmed already, don't think they need to be changed,
• since the stator/mag were changed does the MPEM need to be adjusted for timing on this model engine (although the donor stator/mag were from an exact same engine model and year), but as it was running OK for about 2 mins before I noticed the leak on the manifold earlier, the timing does not seem to be the issue,
• used the spring from the carb kit, which seems to be a no-no from the carb thread, but that is the only way to get pop off pressure within spec,
• idle valve is set to 1 1/2 turns, should it be closed to 1/2 or 1 turn, if the plugs are too wet, the current is travelling over the wet plug and not making the necessary arc on the tip, allowing ignition,

Loosing patience and time (ran out of vacation), dropped it back at the Seadoo dealer, however, their mechanic is left scratching his head too! (yes I know this could lead to real pain in the wallet)

 

[ToddinTO]

Got the unit back from the dealer, who could not fix it, or get it started once.

The most senior mechanic is convinced that the issue is the MPEM or other electronics, before I spend about $500 on a used MPEM for it, is there anything more to try?

Thanks

 

[jjsinaz]

Does it have spark? If the spark plugs are fouling out it either does not have spark or it's getting too much fuel. Check for spark if you have spark then to go back into the carbs and make sure the needles are still seating properly and pop off is correct. After you reassemble the carbs with the diaphragm on apply air to the inlet again and make sure it holds pressure. If that little lever that operates the needle valve is contacting the button on the diaphragm it will hold the needle off it's seat and cause flooding.

If you don;t have spark and don't want to spend $500 on another MPEM, you can remove your MPE and ship it to Westside Motorsports Contact minnetonka4me on here. He can test the MPEM, make extra DESS keys if you need them and sell you another MPEM at a reasonable price if it turns out to be bad. Send the DESS key with the MPEM. If you need another MPEM he will have t reprogram it

 

[jjsinaz]

Oh, and that guy who sold you that should have his a$$ kicked. He knew damned well there was problems and told you it ran. Happens all the time. That is a great ski though and once you get it running right, and you will, you will love it.

 

[ToddinTO]

Thanks JJSinaz!!!

Ya, it has been very tempting to contact the seller and give him blast, but hey, that does not do any of us any good, another learning experience in life, I could thank him for the opportunity to learn as much as I have about the craft!

I broke many rules that should be followed (check compression, engine running, etc) BEFORE even putting giving the seller a cent, many of which I have suggested to others when buying any type of power equipment!

So I decided to recheck my steps;
1. disconnected the stator wires at the front electrical box, yellow to yellow resistance all read 0 ohms on my digital multimeter,
2. checked the pickup coil to ground, 245 ohms resistance,
3. cranked the engine with the DVM on AC V, maxed out at 0.28VAC, seemed kinda low for what I have read on other posts (had DVM on min/max setting so I could get the max reading),
4. reconnected pickup coil to MPEM,
5. decided to leave the rectifier disconnected from stator and pos/neg connectors on MPEM,
6. removed spark plugs, grounded them to the engine and cranked the engine, WOW, trying this later in the evening in low light, vs daylight, the spark seemed rather good, in daylight it was very weak looking!
7. put plugs in and cranked the engine, with and without choke, would not start,
8. decided to try a bit of premix in both cylinders, started for about a sec, and NO 12V low on the message center when it was cranking!!!
9. put a bit more premix in the cylinders, it started and ran for about 30-40 secs, idled at 3100, and as I felt the engine getting warm, I turned it off with the stop button,
10. tried the start/stop a couple of times, about 3-5 mins in between, started right away each time,
11. hooked up the hose, started it up, turned on the hose, ran it for about 5 mins, rev'd it up to about 4500, turned of hose and then turned off the engine with stop button,
12. while it was running, I wiggled all the wires, everywhere, to be sure I am not dealing with some flaky connection somewhere, engine kept running solid the whole time.

Now it is pretty dark out, time to call it quits for the night .......

This exonerates the MPEM from contributing to my issues, right?

What I plan to do next;
1. reconnect the rectifier and see if it still starts OK, if so, check the charging voltage at the battery,
2. If it will not start again, I will replace the rectifier,
3. I have ordered a couple of new 80g Mikuni springs for the carbs, as i used the springs in the Mikuni carb kits, again, which is not recommended . . . . replace and reset pop off as suggested, (or should I put it on the water and give it a try before messing with the carbs again)

I had to loosen the engine mounts to remove/replace the front cover, flywheel, magneto, stator . . . I put the shims in the EXACT same positions (front and back), how do I tell if the engine/pump need to be aligned? When I rev'd the engine up to 4500rpm, there was no serious vibration on the hull, do I need water going through the pump to determine if it needs an alignment?

Getting close to take it to the lake, to bad we are starting into the fall here (wish I too was in Arizona). . . .

Thanks again Mikidymac and JJSinaz for feedback and support!!!!

BTW, the dealer only charged me for 2 hours labor when they were trying to get it started, I think they felt my pain when they could not get it running either, so I was not burned too bad.

 

[jjsinaz]

Yeah, you're right about not giving the seller a blast. It wouldn't accomplish much. You can still get burned even if you check compression etc before buying. I bought my 96 with what I thought was a good engine. Had good compression and ran, but I got about a season out of it and it blew. Another thing is you can't really tell how these things are going to run by just starting them on a trailer with no load on the pump.

As far as the alignment, it's always a good idea to check it after you've messed around with the mounts, but you need the special tool to check and adjust it. One way to get a ball park idea on how good the alignment is take a look at the carbon seal on the driveshaft and see if it looks like it is centered. Putting those shims back exactly like they were is imperative.

Another thought I had, since you mentioned that your pop off was way off with the stock springs, you did replace the needles/seats with the same size as those you took out correct? Changing the size of the seats has a big effect on pop off too.

Yes, your MPEM is most likely okay since it is running

 

[ToddinTO]

Good Morning,

Carbon seal looks good, but the boot/bellows presses it against the metal ring, but does not have much "spring" to it, I will order a new kit and likely change that out this fall, next spring. The alignment tool is rather pricey for a one time use, I will check around my area or at the launch to see if another Seadooer has one for loan . . . but after I take it for a ride and see what the vibration is like.

Yes, changed the needles and seats with same which were originally installed, 1.5.

The new 80g genuine black mikuni springs should arrive any day now, I will install them and recheck the pop-off with a different pressure gauge as well.

 

[ToddinTO]

I have been tied up the last few nights and away on Labor Day weekend, back this aft.

Still waiting for a replacement rectifier and two 80g carb springs to arrrive, decided to see if the GTX, when cold, would fire up straight away (rectifier still disconnected), sitting on the trailer.

No go, cranked it with or without choke for a couple of cycles around 15 seconds each, nothing. And the dreaded "12v low" indicator appeared on the message center again!!!! I checked the battery voltage when it was cranking at it was at 11.9v, so I guess it is below 12v, removed the battery and put it on the charger for the night.

Pulled the plugs to check again for spark, yes, still has spark and seems pretty strong now, but again it is dusk and they seem brighter.

Put a tsp of mix in each cylinder, and replaced plugs, it fired for a few seconds, after trying this a few times it ran for about 20 seconds, but stumbling the whole time, as if it was going to stop, then would rev back up to 3k, down to about 1K, repeat. Finally, it quit without pressing the stop button.

The time it was running the exhaust was really smokey, where as, the other night when I had it running on the hose for about 5 mins the exhaust was pretty typical for a 2 cycle engine, light smoke but not thick white smoke.

I am already prepared to pull of the carbs again to put in the 80g springs and reset the pop-off again, but this seems like a fuel issue to me, if the engine will start with some mix directly dropped into the cylinders, correct?

As for the 12v low issue, seems this is common on this year of craft, should I even bother chasing it down if it will start and run?

 

[ToddinTO]

I plan to verify, again, the rotary valve timing while I have the carbs off, and check the clearance as well (eliminate the likelihood of a blow by problem, not expected as the engine has 198 hours on it).

When checking the clearance using the solder method, I know that the O ring must be removed from the cover, but should the rotary valve be on the gear or should it NOT be in place, just placing the solder on the block holding it in position with a dab of grease, then bold on the cover?

Thanks again.

 

[GGuillot]

I plan to verify, again, the rotary valve timing while I have the carbs off, and check the clearance as well (eliminate the likelihood of a blow by problem, not expected as the engine has 198 hours on it).

When checking the clearance using the solder method, I know that the O ring must be removed from the cover, but should the rotary valve be on the gear or should it NOT be in place, just placing the solder on the block holding it in position with a dab of grease, then bold on the cover?

Thanks again.

What are your carb settings? Check the rotary valve clearance with the valve in, use very small pieces, large ones can crack the cover. Your measurements will likely be off and read high, the cover flexes, you want it to fall within .010 to .014 (inches). If you see vertical machined lines from the factory it's likely still good.

I've wasted money on rotary valve cover machining when it didn't need it, post some pics when you pull it apart.

 

[ToddinTO]

Hi GGuillot,

Thanks for your comments, definitely don't want to sink money into it if it is not warranted!

Carbs are set as per manual, 1 turn out for idle and closed for high speed.

Stopping to pick up some solder tomorrow night, but pulled off the cover tonight. I don't know how you would check the clearance with a feeler gauge, at least not the one I have, need a much longer and thinner one that would offer more flexibility.

The cover feels relatively smooth, has the vertical scoring in the center but the concentric scratches around the outside. (photo attached, cover is sitting on the top of the engine)

From reading some other threads, perhaps this old motor would benefit from a primer setup. Sounds like Rotax engines on Skidoos have them. If it saves wear and tear on the starter and battery, since the engine starts sooner, as long as the pickup is connected on the return fuel line, what is the drawback?

BTW, with the choke on full, how long should a cold engine need to crank before it starts? I read a thread that stated it could take 30 seconds!!!! I have only been waiting 5, 10, maybe 15 seconds before I stop and give the starter a rest, is that stopping early?

 

[GGuillot]

Hi GGuillot,

Thanks for your comments, definitely don't want to sink money into it if it is not warranted!

Carbs are set as per manual, 1 turn out for idle and closed for high speed.

Stopping to pick up some solder tomorrow night, but pulled off the cover tonight. I don't know how you would check the clearance with a feeler gauge, at least not the one I have, need a much longer and thinner one that would offer more flexibility.

The cover feels relatively smooth, has the vertical scoring in the center but the concentric scratches around the outside. (photo attached, cover is sitting on the top of the engine)

From reading some other threads, perhaps this old motor would benefit from a primer setup. Sounds like Rotax engines on Skidoos have them. If it saves wear and tear on the starter and battery, since the engine starts sooner, as long as the pickup is connected on the return fuel line, what is the drawback?

BTW, with the choke on full, how long should a cold engine need to crank before it starts? I read a thread that stated it could take 30 seconds!!!! I have only been waiting 5, 10, maybe 15 seconds before I stop and give the starter a rest, is that stopping early?

Only matters for the WOT, but I run both carbs at 1/2 turn out on HS needles, seems to be a safe setting when really pushing it hard all day. I see a solid 6700 on top end.

Yeah, I broke a feeler gauge, that rotary valve cover looks like it could have some wear, 2 very small pieces of solder, valve in, 1 up and 1 down like it shows in the SM. I factored in about .005 to .007 of flex after this last incident of spending $150 I didn't need to. So on my 97' GTX I was getting .017 (technically out of spec) after I had the oring groove and lip machined. Reason I discovered this solder flex test problem, next build the next year on the GSX I came up with .020 and had .006 machined and it was too tight and caused issues getting it to turn, and scoring up my new RV and the cover. $100 bucks of machining down the toilet, I fixed it with a new RV ($25) and a $15 cover off ebay that had no visible wear. I put it back in and came with .020 again and ran it. On the GTX it was .024 and when I had it machined a couple years ago, then when I checked it afterward it was .017. That one worked, but I figured out later after messing with the GSX this year it was likely closer to .011.

I'd recommend getting a cover off ebay that you can zoom in on and see the wear, any local place or SBT is going to charge you over $100.

Measure it and see what you come up with.

Pretty normal after it's been sitting for while to hold the choke and crank a couple times for 10 seconds or so. On the water starting and stopping my 97' GTX is instant and immediate ever time. My 96' GSX a little more effort at times, I'm not sure why. They both run great, no run issues so far aside from initially a bad brand new fuel selector on the GTX and fouling a plug on the GSX running the premix during break in.

 

[ToddinTO]

I checked the clearance on the rotary valve twice, two pieces of solder each time.

Manual says the spec is 0.25-0.35mm or 0.01-0.014in, both the top and bottom solder pieces, both times have a thickness of 0.38mm or 0.015in, so it looks like this is the source of my hard start when cold situation.

Even with a bit of flex it still puts it on the high side of the spec.

So I am left with purchasing one off Ebay, based upon a photo, or one from SBT for $100USD (which is about $120CDN). I will check around my area for a machine shop that can take off a few thou, but it is likely faster to buy a used one.

 

[ToddinTO]

I checked around a few machine shops in the area and they suggested that they could not machine the RV cover for less than several hundred, mostly due to the fact that they said a jig would need to be made to hold the RV cover flat . . . . one guy suggested that the block would need to be machined as well!

I had a look at the block surface behind the RV rotor itself, it was as smooth, no scrapes gouges or marks.

I did notice some corrosion on the seating surface for the cover, I cleaned it up with some 600/800 grit sandpaper and on the RV cover itself, once both surfaces were clean and shiny, I did the solder test again. This time both pieces of solder, top and bottom were 0.010in / 0.27mm, and I did a second set as well just to be sure, same readings, so that is now within spec, according to the service manual!

The black 80g genuine Mikuni springs arrived on Friday, so I put them in the carbs, and as Mikidymac has stated several times, without any adjustments, the pop-offs were 37 & 38 PSI. Set the idle screw to 1 turn, and high to 1/4 turn. Cleaned up the carb mounts on the RV cover and carb mounting surfaces with some of the 800grit paper, so shiny, they looked like a mirror.

Put RV cover back on (after double checking the timing and backlash of the RV), reinstalled the carbs, expecting that the RV out of spec was the source of my hard to start issue. Put in a freshly charged battery, and cranked it over 4 times for 15-20 seconds each, waiting about 2-3 minutes in between, and . . . . nothing, not even a backfire!

It still has a good spark and compression.

I have not removed the flywheel cover, as I was the one who replaced the flywheel and I was careful to ensure the key on the crankshaft did not move as it slid on the crankshaft nice, used blue loctite and torqued it to 110ft/lbs.

So if timing is good (RV and Mag), spark is good, compression is good (155PSI), fuel is good, what can it be??? (since I did get it running for several 30 second periods and then for about 5 mins on the hose, that clears the MPEM right?)

 

[soccerdad]

On problems like this, I always try to simplify things. I doubt it is a rotary valve issue. I would still lean towards as fuel delivery problem. So I would rig a temporary fuel line directly from the RES on the fuel baffle to the fuel inlet on the front carb. This takes the strainer and switch out of the loop. Then for me a cold motor that has now fuel in the carbs can take up to 45 seconds to fire. Maybe 10 seconds at a time with the choke pulled, no throttle. And my skis almost always show low 12V during this. But they always start. So don't freak out about that. If it fires on a prime, then it is likely a fuel issue. Anyway, good luck. They are great and pretty bullet proof skis once sorted out. With all this said, I did have a 97GSX that had a bad CDI in the MPEM. It had a spark and the two beeps. But it would only backfire from time to time-LOUD. Replace it and all was good. If the fuel tests above don't resolve it, maybe look at the mpem. Nick-Minnetonka4me at westside powersports will sell you a good one, and will actually take it back if it does not solve your problem. (maybe a restock fee).

 

[GGuillot]

What are your carb settings again? Carbs are synced? Set the LS needles at 1 turn out, HS needles to 1/2 turn out or 0. On the idle screw, back it out until the throttle plates are laying flat, then with the idle screw just starting to touch go 2 full turns in. It should at least start and run at these settings, once running you may need to go 1/4 either way setting the idle at 3k on the hose and about 1500 in the water. Double check your oil pump alignment once you set the idle.

Pull and hold the choke open while starting, after a few 10 second hits it should fire up, if it doesn't you're either not getting fuel to the carbs or a failure has occurred in the ignition system.

 

[GGuillot]

I have not removed the flywheel cover, as I was the one who replaced the flywheel and I was careful to ensure the key on the crankshaft did not move as it slid on the crankshaft nice, used blue loctite and torqued it to 110ft/lbs.

Did you do this before or after the last time you had it running? I was reading through your thread, just trying to get an idea of timeline that may have changed something.

 

[ToddinTO]

Thanks again for the suggestions. Yes, sorry it is along post, just wanting to share all the details, as I gotta believe there is something small I am overlooking.

I got it started about a week ago, only got it running by putting a tsp of mix in each cylinder.

I let it run for about 20 seconds or so, then shut it off, I could then restart it just fine, no choke or throttle.

So I hooked up the hose, restarted it no problem, ran it for about 5 min or so, idled just around 3k, could rev it up to about 4500k a few times, turned off the water, gave it some throttle, let it settle back down to idle and turned it off.

Let it sit for a day and it would not restart. I did not prime it again with mix, I now had the new Mikuni springs, and decided to put them in the carbs before trying it again. I also was reading some threads about the RV clearance and checked that, which initially was out of spec.

After the new springs were in the carbs, and RV cover cleaned up from the corrosion around the edge, tried it again, but nothing. Again, I have not tried to prime it again, really hoping that with the genuine springs, and RV clearance now on spec it would start right up.

LS is set at 1, HS 1/4, I have not touched the idle screw setting as it was running at 3K last week.

I will try what Soccerdad suggests, bypassing the selector and filter. However, it does all have all new fuel lines, filter, selector switch and clamps, the clamps are on tight enough that you cannot turn the hose on the barbs so I don't think any connections are pulling in air. I tested the fuel selector before it was installed, as I read on some other threads that they can be bad even though they are new.

If I empty the cup at the fuel filter, reinstall and crank about 10-15 seconds, it is almost entirely refilled, so the fuel pump part seems to be working on the mag carb.

I really want to get it running without the need to prime it each time (not practical if you stop and are out on the water), but I have never tried cranking it for up to 45 seconds. Glad to hear that the 12v low may be common and not necessarily a symptom of the problem.

I was thinking of pulling the battery out of the Utopia and trying it as well, just to be sure I do not have two sick PWC batteries.

 

[mikidymac]

Are you using the choke?

Also never let it run on the hose for more than about a minute or you will ruin your driveshaft seal.

At 5 minutes you might have already cooked it.

 

[ToddinTO]

Yes, choke is on while cranking.

Driveshaft seal, do you mean the carbon ring or something else? I had the PTO flywheel cover off when checking the timing on the RV, and it "looked" ok, nice and even thickness. Is there anyway to tell if it is toast without having it sitting in the water, would I be able to tell if I just back it in the water on the trailer?

I have a complete kit to replace the seal, c clip, bellows, just have not focused on it, until the engine is running solid.

 

[GGuillot]

I have not touched the idle screw setting as it was running at 3K last week.

Good NGK BR8ES spark plugs gapped at .020 - .024? Verify you're getting fuel out the return on the backside of the carbs, verify you're getting spark. If all, good do the idle adjustment like I described, it might not be getting enough air to start. With the idle screw just barely touching go 2 full turns in, you can adjust the idle after it starts.