1989 SeaDoo back at shop for no start

[redraif]

Ok I want to pre-apologize for this being long winded, but I did not want to miss any important details. I searched and will continue to search, but I got a flood of results with a no-start condition. Nothing that sounded similar as of yet.

Back Story... I had this 1989 SeaDoo growing up and it got parked for an extended period after the Lake was let down for serious dam repairs. At the time my Father handled the maintenance and somehow did not winterize it. Parents divorced and it sat. I decided to resurrect it. Due to the long sit, I felt better letting the shop handle it. It received a new motor and they said it was running fine for them.

I got it home and popped it in the water. It will not start for me. It will try to crank, but not turn over. For clarification... I went off memory... muscle memory that is... lol... funny how your body instinctively knows things. Anyhow... I attempted the start by pulling the choke out & holding while pressing the start button. Even tried to add in a bit of light throttle. All things that the SeaDoo responded to back in the day if it sat a while.

Nada... no start. And I tried for quite a while just in case it was due to the "fresh" state. Noticed every now and again the ignition switch starter button would go dead. Just click and not start. let go try again... back to the no start like its out of gas condition. Acted just like it had run out of gas or the lanyard was off the safety switch. I assumed they had not put in much gas and perhaps it was empty, as this is how it behaved. It tried and tried, but never fired. I went back and forth between main tank and reserve to be sure. Assuming it was a no gas condition... I filled it up with about 2 gal of fresh ethanol free gas.

With gas in, I tried again. This time I even removed the lanyard and held the button down hard with my finger to take it out of the equation. In the old days I could run the SeaDoo with my toe holding down the safety button without issue. Nothing got it to fire off. Choke, no choke/ throttle, no throttle... I tried a mix of it all. Did this for a good 15 minutes it seemed. To the point I feared the battery would deplete. Did I flood the dang thing and that is why it would not start or is there something else? Literally in all the years I had this thing, I have never flooded it to the point we could not get it started. I noticed every now and again the ignition switch starter button seemingly did not work when depressed. It just clicked, but it was highly intermittent.

Called up the shop, he asked why did I try to start it in the water without starting it on the trailer first. Do what?! I never land started my SeaDoo first. He said its too hard on the Ski to start it in water if it has not started in a while. Sorry this is a new one on me. I said besides the point the choke lever is set improperly and needs to be fixed. So he comes to the house. He tries to land fire it and noticed the intermittent start issue with the start button, so he took it to the shop. Now he has been sitting on it for 2 weeks and I go by the shop. He wants me to find a replacement ignition switch starter button and safety ignition switch. Says due to the intermittent issue with the button that is the issue. I said what about the fact when the button does work it acts like its out of gas. He says its the start button. He finally admitted they had to mess with the safety switch too. Something about shaving it? I told him I noticed the part you depress with the lanyard no longer stuck out as far as it used to. He said something that made me think they replaced it with a non-oem unit.

I have found both parts used and will order, but what are the odds this explains the no start where it acts like its out of gas? Should I just trust the shop to swap and see? It sounds like throwing parts at a problem. I figure manually holding in the safety switch with my hand ruled it out as a culprit? Are there any other things I should inquire they check? or is there a way to bypass the start button to rule it out or verify its the culprit. Maybe im overt thinking the whole thing. LOL! Esp since I'm female.... I hate being at the mercy of a shop, but I just did not have the ability to handle a motor rebuild or swap.

Can you all give me a list of things to ask the mechanic to be sure he troubleshooted? Sorry... I'm new to 2 Cycles and am in need of a crash course. LOL.
I guess I should have them let me know if they have verified spark?

 

[AKnarrowback]

Pull it out of the water.

Check to see if you have spark with the tether on and the plugs out and grounded to the block. If there isn't any spark then find out why. If there is spark then dump a teaspoon of raw gas down each spark plug hole, put the plugs in fast and give it a start. If it fires off then figure out why you are not getting any fuel.

 

[Dr Honda]

The shop is giving you a line of BS. A good running ski will start in the water without an issue. Even if it has been sitting.

The real problem is... the shop will just jerk you around, and in the long run, they will charge you WAY more than that ski is worth. (although it may have sentimental value, going by the story)

What reason did they give for it needing a new engine? I've resurrected very old engines before.

Did they rebuild the carb? if yes, was it with OEM Mikuni parts?

Did they replace the fuel lines? Filter? Clean the fuel select valve?

 

[AKnarrowback]

I know my first reply was not the most helpful, but the basics of motor operation are

1 - the motor must be in sound working condition, assembled properly with all parts within specs as designed.

2 - there must be fuel delivered to the motor in the proper fuel to air ratio.

3 - there must be an ignition source of significant strength and delivered at the proper time to ignite the fuel.

The first thing an experienced rider would check is spark by pulling the plugs out, putting them in the caps, setting the curved electrode on a bare metal surface of the engine (the unpainted circle of the spark plug hole) and cranking on the starter. DO NOT be holding onto the plug caps when cranking, you can get a serious shock. If there is spark then move on to checking for fuel. If there isn't spark then start trouble shooting the electrical system to figure out why.

When you say the motor was new what all was involved? Was it a complete replacement from another supplier, an in house rebuild? What all was replaced?

Don't worry about a long explanation. The more info the better.

When I worked as a Doo mechanic I went out of my way to make sure every customer was fully aware of what was being done to their machine. If you were near by I would get your machine going for free because I hate to see anyone getting jerked around.

Keep us informed as to what is going on with your machine.

 

[redraif]

The shop is giving you a line of BS. A good running ski will start in the water without an issue. Even if it has been sitting.

The real problem is... the shop will just jerk you around, and in the long run, they will charge you WAY more than that ski is worth. (although it may have sentimental value, going by the story)

What reason did they give for it needing a new engine? I've resurrected very old engines before.

Did they rebuild the carb? if yes, was it with OEM Mikuni parts?

Did they replace the fuel lines? Filter? Clean the fuel select valve?

Yes sentimental attachment to the ski.

OK it is up at the shop still I had to find new used start buttons... the tether one and the start button version. I chose to get both to rule them out as the issue. I will take the old ones and break them apart and rebuild as spares if i can find the issue with them. Mechanic was a bit more forth coming then the shop manager. Seems once they got it back it was not starting for them either, but they are hung on it being a short in the start button. It seems no other diagnostics were performed outside of assuming the start button is the problem. The ski will not leave until I go up there and see for myself that is fires off perfect.
New motor because it sat and literally all seals in the motor were blow and rotted. This was true as the whole bottom of the ski looked like I dumped and container of oil in it. He said I would have had to rebuild the entire motor which for him would have cost me more in his time. I'm not sure if they tried to fire it of and perhaps damaged the cylinder walls and that's why, or if they were already damaged and that's why I was not given an option. Its hard to get a mechanic to speak honestly to a girl. He said it was too damaged to be worth the effort was what I was told. Just not specifics. This new version is the later style yellow motor.

Perhaps with help I could have rebuilt the motor myself, but literally all my friends said no they were scared to help. There was a time crunch as the lake is being drained this year and will be down for 2 years. So a decision was made above my head to just have the shop do it. I have been doing insane research on this thing. In fact once the lake is down I plan to upgrade the exhaust and carb to get a bit more out of it. I already have the stainless prop and ride plate.

Yes new fuel lines. Carb was in fact rebuilt with "mikuni" parts per the receipt. Fuel selector valve was replaced with new.

 

[redraif]

I know my first reply was not the most helpful, but the basics of motor operation are

1 - the motor must be in sound working condition, assembled properly with all parts within specs as designed.

2 - there must be fuel delivered to the motor in the proper fuel to air ratio.

3 - there must be an ignition source of significant strength and delivered at the proper time to ignite the fuel.

The first thing an experienced rider would check is spark by pulling the plugs out, putting them in the caps, setting the curved electrode on a bare metal surface of the engine (the unpainted circle of the spark plug hole) and cranking on the starter. DO NOT be holding onto the plug caps when cranking, you can get a serious shock. If there is spark then move on to checking for fuel. If there isn't spark then start trouble shooting the electrical system to figure out why.

When you say the motor was new what all was involved? Was it a complete replacement from another supplier, an in house rebuild? What all was replaced?

Don't worry about a long explanation. The more info the better.

When I worked as a Doo mechanic I went out of my way to make sure every customer was fully aware of what was being done to their machine. If you were near by I would get your machine going for free because I hate to see anyone getting jerked around.

Keep us informed as to what is going on with your machine.

Motor came from SBT. It was a "new short block" I was told it was 100% new not rebuilt. though i find it odd as I could not find a "new" motor that was not a reman being sold by SBT. But based on the receipt the cost of that motor was well beyond any rebuilt I could find via SBT. I still need to get that fully sorted with them. I explained the mechanics findings in the above post regarding why a replace and not a rebuild.

Parts used were OEM from SBT. The shop had some OEM Seadoo parts still laying around as well and used those. Based on his making me do parts chasing, he did not use anything that was not genuine SeaDoo.

Also the wear ring was replaced as well. There was fuel pump gasket kit listed. New spark plugs & battery. Pump liner

Only good answer I did not get was what rotary valve was used. The mechanic seemed to think I had a updated version, but to my knowledge the ski was factory except for the prop. He reused what I had originally. I do know when the ski was newer Dad took it in and had them do some upgrades. ride plate and stainless prop for sure. Was it all common to swap rotary valves for performance gains? Or was this something discovered later when you swapped to a tuned exhaust and larger carbs? Because best I know the Seadoo has original exhaust and carb.

Yes research has taken me down the rabbit hole. now I'm wanting to do upgrades over the winter. But I want to do them.

 

[mikidymac]

Well, I am afraid you were not told the complete truth. There are no "New" engines left for these skis and in no way did SBT have a brand new OEM Yellow 580 engine from Seadoo sitting in their shop. What you got was the standard SBT rebuilt engine just like the ones listed on their website, the only difference between the $695 and $495 engines is the warranty.
SBT does not sell OEM parts, they make what they call OEM equivalent parts but they are not, they are made in China parts of lesser quality than OEM.

I am sure your mechanic is a SBT dealer and is probably selling these parts as OEM at a markup.

Let me say again, SBT is not OEM and doesn't sell OEM parts.

 

[redraif]

Thank you for that info. looks like I need to have a good discussion with the shop manager.

 

[mikidymac]

I would. There is nothing wrong with the SBT reman for a stock replacement and a good no fault warranty. The issue is them selling it as a brand new OEM engine.

 

[redraif]

Turns out the mechanic was confused when we were talking on the phone. the shop manager confirmed it was a reman with new internals and a 2 year warranty. the question now is why did that reman cost me what it did. Definately a LARGE markup.

 

[mikidymac]

Sounds like a typical shop marking up everything. Remember they are in business to make money not save you money.

I would question it if it seems high and ask why you could have gotten the exact same engine from SBT for so much less. If they are a dealer for SBT their cost is already less than you can by it for.

 

[redraif]

Will do... thank you!

As soon as it leaves and is running... LOL.. I will do just that.
Or start a negotiation if they try and charge more for it not running and having to go back and tinker.

Best not to poke the sleeping dragon till the time is right.